tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23987968428878625082024-03-18T21:58:46.644-07:00Classic Television ShowbizKliph Nesteroff Presents "a portal into a previously unseen world" - The Guardian
"Invaluable" - The Onion AV Club
"Important" - John Hodgman, The Daily ShowUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger5820125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2398796842887862508.post-7678072078167266022022-12-29T12:14:00.002-08:002022-12-29T15:14:07.496-08:00Showbiz Imagery and Forgotten History<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;"><br />Postings at Classic Television Showbiz are dormant, but archived. A reminder you can get a frequent, up-to-date showbiz fix at <a href="http://oldshowbiz.tumblr.com/">our sister site here</a>.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2398796842887862508.post-56999655801843206032022-09-28T00:00:00.000-07:002022-09-28T01:05:36.438-07:00An Interview with Maynard Sloate - Part One<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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<i><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You were running jam sessions around Los Angeles in the late 1940s, booking jazz musicians at clubs like the Red Feather, the Susie Q and the Melody Room... the Melody Room was where a comedian named Ray Bourbon often performed.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Maynard Sloate: There were two Melody Rooms. The jam sessions I did were not at <i>that </i>Melody Room. Bobby Adler and a man named Harry Rubin owned the Melody Room on the Sunset Strip where Ray Bourbon performed. The other Melody Room was somewhere like Slauson and Van Ness and that's where I did the jam sessions.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: August 1949, you joined with a guy named Al Dale and formed a booking company, representing Sarah Vaughan, Illinois Jacquet and Ella Fitzgerald...</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Maynard Sloate: And a lot more. We represented three New York agencies on the West Coast. Those agencies had all the jazz people. We had Count Basie, Ella Fitzgerald, Sarah Vaughan, Dinah Washington, The Ravens... It lasted a year.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: That seems like a big deal. How did you come to open Strip City? Going from booking huge jazz acts to running a strip club seems like a step down.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Maynard Sloate: I was playing drums. The last band I played with was Eddie Oliver, a society band. We played the Mocambo and the Del Mar Beach Club. As an agent the last thing I did was book the Melody Room. The guy who owned it had owned the Susy Q. He wanted to open a burlesque joint, so I booked all of his strippers. It looked to me like those clubs were doing a lot of business. I borrowed five thousand dollars from my father. </span></b><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Bill Robinson and Joe Abrahams owned a club called the Oasis. I got them to be my partners. I opened a club called Strip City. We found this club that had closed and been auctioned off. It was on the corner of Western and Pico.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: It opened in 1950?</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Maynard Sloate: 1950.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Strip City is famous for its Lenny Bruce association. Before Lenny Bruce did any other comedians play it?</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Maynard Sloate: Yes, there were always comedians. None of the others were famous. None of them became stars. They were all working the strip joints. </span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Who were some of the others?</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Maynard Sloate: Well, we opened with comics named Jerry Moore and Dick Kimble. A guy who had a little success was Joey Carter. Then there was a comic at that time named Slick Slavin. Slick Slavin later became Trustin Howard, a writer. I think the most successful guy who came out of Strip City other than Lenny was the drummer. His name was Bill Richmond and he wrote all the movies with Jerry Lewis. He was our drummer at Strip City. Lord Buckley played it. And Slim Galliard. And Redd Foxx. When I got out of there I went into the Crescendo. Strip City was around for ten years. </span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: What do you remember about Lord Buckley?</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Maynard Sloate: Not a great deal. His original act was a vaudeville act where he worked with people out of the audience. He put them onstage, four or five people, and worked them like ventriloquist dummies. At Strip City he was doing the hip version of fairy tales and Lincoln's Gettysburg Address and those things. He worked both Strip City and Jazz City. He was pretty nuts (laughs), but no problems. He was all right.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: What can you tell me about the early Redd Foxx?</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Maynard Sloate: Redd Foxx never changed. He was not fun to be with. I don't know what to say. He became very successful, of course. I don't know. He was a dirty comic. He had no taste whatsoever. When he was dirty, it was obscene. He would do subjects that were just disgusting. When I talked to him about it he said, "Man, that's my<i> integrity</i>."</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: This was at Strip City? He was not known for playing white rooms at that time.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Maynard Sloate: It was <i>not </i>a white room at that time. The final thing I did before I left Strip City was turn it into all Negro burlesque. "Negro" being the word of the day. So it was all Negro burlesque and Redd was the comic.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: How did you first meet Lenny Bruce?</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Maynard Sloate: An agent - name of Lou Dorn - took me to a place in Downey, California. A nightclub called the Cup and Saucer. It's very famous. I'm making it famous. Anyway, the Cup and Saucer in Downey. Lenny had just come to town and Lou Dorn was booking him. Lou Dorn booked all kinds of people in the strip joints. He had the Colony Club in Gardenia, which was the biggest of them. He was probably the most successful of the agents booking strip clubs. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Lenny Bruce was playing the Cup and Saucer. All of the comics who were working in the Los Angeles area were doing pretty much the same act. At that time the army routine was probably the number one piece of material used by most comics. Lenny, having just come from New York, had different material. He was doing a straight, clean act with some impressions and it was different from what the local comics were doing, so I hired him. He played Strip City for seventy-five dollars a week, six nights a week.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: He was onstage for a significant amount of time each night.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Maynard Sloate: Yeah. At that time we were using two comics. One would do an hour and then the next would do an hour. But the strippers were doing the time. The comedian did fifteen minutes and they would introduce the strippers and do a little time before each stripper to give the band a break. And then the next comic would take over.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: They say Strip City is where Lenny Bruce came into his own.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Maynard Sloate: Well, Lenny was not doing what he became famous for, but it was probably his most creative period. Both at Strip City and when he worked for me at the Crescendo. That was when he was <i>writing</i>. Buddy Hackett got him a job writing for Leonard Goldstein at Universal. He was working on a Buddy Hackett movie, writing as they were filming. Rewriting, actually. That was when he was doing all of his <i>real </i>creative work from Strip City to the Crescendo to Anne's 440 in San Francisco. Unbelievable and brilliant. At the Crescendo we put a phone in for him and he would call people on the phone and it would come through the sound system. He would have conversations with babysitters, a maitre'd, whatever. He would just wing it and did some very funny things.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: May 1951 - the vice squad busted Strip City. </span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Maynard Sloate: Strip joints were a problem to the police department. The problem was that <i>they</i> used to come in to drink and pick up girls. One night there was a party of people in there and at 11:30, the coordinated time, a guy stood up and said, "You're under arrest." He grabbed the stripper. I said, "What are you doing and why are you arresting people?"He said, "I was shocked and embarrassed. We're arresting you for running a lewd and indecent show. I'm taking a stripper, a comic and an owner." So off we went. </span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: What was the official charge?</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Maynard Sloate: Conducting a lewd and indecent show. Scared the living hell out of me. I was a virgin, what did I know? And there was nothing going on. They were going to bust us at 11:30 no matter what was happening.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: So what happened?</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Maynard Sloate: We paid off everyone in town including a catholic priest. Eventually it went to court and I was scared to death of going to jail. We got seventy-five dollar fines. They changed the plea so our lawyer told us to plead guilty to misdemeanors - disturbing the peace.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Was that a typical thing in Los Angeles at the time?</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Maynard Sloate: Yes. The corruption was unbelievable between the police and the State Board of Equalization. It was all corrupt.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: How would you know who to payoff in such a situation?</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Maynard Sloate: We entrusted a "morals attorney." Two or three years later, when we knew every policeman in town, we found out we had plead guilty to conducting a lewd and indecent show <i>not</i> disturbing the peace. So I called the lawyer and he said, "No! I did not!" I said, "Go find out." He plead us guilty to the wrong charge, apparently, and that held until my partner's brother-in-law became one of the most famous attorneys. He put himself through law school cashiering on weekends at Strip City. He became very famous as a first amendment attorney. Years later he said, "What ever happened to that charge?" I said, "I plead guilty to a lewd and indecent show. I think it means I'm a sex offender!" He said, "I'll take care of that." He got it dismissed.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You mention it was Lenny Bruce's most creative period. What about his drug habit - did it exist at that time?</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Maynard Sloate: It didn't exist at Strip City. I remember him telling me that he would never do drugs because the thought of doing one night in jail was enough to scare the hell out of him. Then he became a first class junkie at the Crescendo.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You entered into a partnership with Gene Norman's Crescendo in 1957. What lead to your involvement with the Crescendo? It developed into the most important club for stand-up comics in all of Hollywood.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Maynard Sloate: Yeah, and Gene had no sense of humor! He'd say to me, "Is he funny?" But he was a great guy, I liked Gene. Gene Norman had a partner named Chuck Landis. Chuck Landis wanted out. I owned Strip City and Jazz City. I was getting out of Jazz City because our lease was up. We didn't care to stay there any longer even though we were doing very well. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Gene Norman called me and said, "Chuck wants to buy me out. We've set a price and one of us has to buy the other out. The price is ridiculous because it's so cheap, but he doesn't think I can handle the club without him. If you'll come in with me, you can own half of the Crescendo." I was getting out of Jazz City and would have preferred to get out of Strip City. I said, "I'll have to bring my partner with me." So I bought the Crescendo and I sold Jazz City and Strip City.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: And you were involved with another club called the Avant Garde.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Maynard Sloate: After I sold the Crescendo I opened the Avant Garde.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: The opening show was Chico Hamilton with comedian Herkie Styles.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Maynard Sloate: Somebody mentioned Herkie Styles the other day at lunch. I haven't thought of Herkie in a hundred years. I knew him, but I knew nothing about him. I was at the Crescendo for about a year, maybe. </span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Long enough to bring in Lenny Bruce.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Maynard Sloate: Yes. I gave him a contract for six months as an opening act for all of the headliners. The only time we couldn't use him was when the Mary Kaye Trio was headlining. Their manager, Billy Burton, didn't want a comic because he said, "We have a comic in <i>our</i> act." </span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: What was the general reaction to Lenny from the Crescendo audience?</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Maynard Sloate: Gene kept him after I left. He'd give him some dates and finally he couldn't have him anymore. It just became impossible and became unfunny. He was no longer doing comedy, he was doing law.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Were you around for the notorious night that Lenny Bruce was fired at the Slate Brothers club?</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">Maynard Sloate: I was involved. Don Rickles had come to town. Don Rickles was playing Zardi's. A guy by the name of Jack Varden owned it and was a friend of mine. So I went in to see this comic he had brought in from Florida - Don Rickles. He was my sense of humor and he killed me. I was bringing people into Zardi's to see Don Rickles. Lenny Bruce called to tell me he was opening at Slate Brothers on the Friday. That was payday for Don Rickles at Zardi's and we went out for breakfast at the Gaiety Deli on the Sunset Strip after he got off work. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">So this night was his pay night, but they weren't doing any business and couldn't pay him. He didn't pay Don Rickles. We had breakfast and I had made arrangements to go see Lenny and said to Don, "Do you want to come with us to see Lenny Bruce?" He said, "Sure." Well, as you know Lenny opened and closed in one night and the first call I got in the morning was from Lenny who tells me the story about walking off the stage and telling the audience to go fuck themselves. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif; font-size: large;">So Lenny was gone and he called to tell me what happened. I said, "So I guess I won't be seeing you tonight." We had planned to go see his show and bring Don Rickles. So, of course, who did they get to replace Lenny? The guy who didn't get paid the night before. That was the beginning of Don's whole career.</span></b><div><b><span style="font-family: Times, Times New Roman, serif;"><br /><a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2015/05/an-interview-with-maynard-sloate-part.html"><span style="font-size: x-large;">Continue to Part Two</span></a></span></b></div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2398796842887862508.post-9817113500746945142020-08-16T13:51:00.001-07:002020-08-16T15:21:03.081-07:00An Interview with Jack Blanchard - Part Four<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: We worked with a lot of comedians over the years. I have always been a comedy fan. When I had <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPQtgeW0MGQ">my group the Dawn Breakers</a> we worked a lot of places that had comedian-emcees. I learned a lot from those guys.</span></b><br />
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<span style="text-align: center;"><br /><i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Blanchard and Morgan became firmly identified with country music. How about some of the country comedians that were around? You played a gig in Atlanta with Roy Clark and the Geezinslaw Brothers.</span></b></i></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large; text-align: center;"><b>Jack Blanchard: Yeah, we did. I liked their humor. Roy Clark was a wonderful guitar player. He sang "Yesterday When I Was Young" and all those beautiful songs. He and Misty were buddies and we worked a lot of shows with him. We worked that show with him in Atlanta.</b></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">We went to a big party that Buck Owens put on. It was put together by the guy who managed Chet Atkins. Jerry Reed was there. There was a great, big, long banquet table full of great food and everybody was having drinks. And then an ambulance showed up. The ambulance guys came in with a stretcher and Roy Clark laid down on it and said goodbye. They put him in the ambulance and raced him to the airport because he had to catch a plane.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You guys appeared on a TV show called Upbeat.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: Oh yeah, that was up in Chicago or Pittsburgh or one of those midwestern cities. It may have been in Cleveland. It was a couple who ran that show and they were very, very hip. We did that show several times. </span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Another one of the local programs that we did was <i>The Robert W. Morgan Show </i>in Los Angeles. He was a funny guy and a nice guy. He had some <i>weird </i>acts on there. I had never seen anything like it. We were the only "normal" act other than Tina Turner. She was on the same show. Misty and I got lost backstage and walked into Tina's dressing room - and when she saw us she started singing "Tennessee Bird Walk."</span></b></div>
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: When you guys came to Los Angeles to appear on American Bandstand you stayed right at the Hollywood Plaza Hotel. It's still there today, but it's a rooming house for senior citizens and low-income pensioners. </span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: Yeah, when I was a kid I listened to the radio a lot because I liked the comedians. I listened to Jack Benny. I listened to Fred Allen. I remember when Frankie Fontaine had his own radio show and then this guy named Henry Morgan came along. The radio comedians would always talk about the Hollywood Plaza Hotel like it was the place to go. I knew that a lot of people had hung around there. I also knew that it was now a dump, but I wanted to be able to say that I had stayed there.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">So I told Misty, "It isn't a classy place anymore, but let's try it." We went in there and it was old and dusty and everything, but not too bad. It had become an old actors hotel. There were a bunch of guys sitting around in there and they were all cowboy stuntmen and character actors. They smiled when I walked in there with my weird glasses and my boots and all that.</span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>I took it in good humor because I understood the difference between their time and our time. Misty and I<span style="text-align: center;"> got a room upstairs. All the rooms had window airs in them. Ours didn't work. </span><span style="text-align: center;">So I called downstairs and told them our air conditioner wasn't working. Well, who was the guy they sent up to fix our air conditioner? It was Slapsy Maxie Rosenbloom! </span></b></span><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Amazing. And you guys were staying there because you were in town to do American Bandstand...</span></b></i><br />
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Jack Blanchard: Yeah, we did <i>American Bandstand </i>and <i>The Robert W. Morgan Show </i>on that trip. And actually, we were also booked on <i>The Lawrence Welk Show</i>. I didn't think that was going to work - and it <i>didn't</i>. They had an office above the Brown Derby, which was directly across the street from where we were staying. We walked across the street and went upstairs to the Welk show office. The guy looked at me, looked at Misty, and thought we were hippies. We weren't hippies, we were just mod, y'know. But they canceled us as soon as the guy saw my haircut.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">They didn't tell us we were fired right then, but they called our agent and then he filled us in. So that's when our agent went and got us <i>The Robert W. Morgan Show</i> instead. But yeah, Slapsy Maxie fixed the air conditioner. That was great because I've been a fan of all the comics, all those comedians, all my life.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: How about Ray Stevens? He was probably the best known novelty artist in Nashville.</span></b></i><br />
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Jack Blanchard: Yeah, I have a love-hate relationship with Ray Stevens. The first time I went up to Nashville, I had just produced a <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w3WZdNAmo8">record for Hank Malcolm and it was good</a>. We were pitching it around town. <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d51tkpXO8w">I went to Monument Records and Ray Stevens was part-owner, I guess</a>.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He and the other guy listened to our stuff, but he wasn't friendly at all. Several years later, I won an ASCAP or BMI award. It was one of those awards that they gave us for "Tennessee Bird Walk." I got up to accept it and Ray was the one who stood up and started a standing ovation. So that was a step forward. And then I ran into him in Lake Arrowhead in California and we had breakfast together and it was cordial. But other than that, I didn't know him too well. But I liked his humor.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Did he see you as a threat? You both were recording a lot of humorous country songs...</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><br /></i>
Jack Blanchard: It could be, but I don't think so. Because when he was ice cold at Monument Records, I was presenting three serious songs and only one funny one - and the funny one was the one that he liked. It was called "Lucky See, Lucky Do." It was a funny song and I thought it would be picked up by somebody big right away, but instead I walked Music Row for about six years before I got any action.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You played the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles with Ray Price, Hank Williams Jr, and the Duke of Paducah. </span></b></i><br />
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Jack Blanchard: I might have been introduced to the Duke of Paducah backstage. I remembered him from radio. </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Whenever I met any of these guys who were years ahead of me, I was always thrilled. </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I met Tex Williams when I was in L.A. and I was thrilled to meet him too. He was the guy who had done "Smoke, Smoke, Smoke (That Cigarette)." But I don't remember a lot of those shows because there were so many shows in so many towns and half the time we didn't even know what town we were in.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: How about your experience at the Grammy Awards? You were nominated as the best country duo next to some of the biggest names in country music. </span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><br /></i>
Jack Blanchard: Yeah, we lost to Johnny Cash and June Carter. I didn't feel too bad losing to them.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Merle Haggard and Bonnie Owens. George Jones and Tammy Wynette. All in the same category. Did you guys attend the ceremony?</span></b></i><br />
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Jack Blanchard: I don't remember if we went to that. I don't think we did. But we were up for a CMA Award. The Country Music Association. We were in the audience for that and we thought surely we were going to win because we had already won the Billboard award that year. But at the CMA - when we didn't win - I had that frozen smile on my face - and it stayed frozen on my face for about three weeks.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You wrote the liner notes for an album by Tom T. Hall.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><br /></i>
Jack Blanchard: Yeah, well, he was at Mercury with us. So we knew him and several other Mercury artists. Like Faron Young. He was a good a friend of ours. I usually talked to Tom T. at the various Mercury functions.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Your song "<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2awyx1J0_8">A Handful of Dimes</a>" has the exact same backing track as your song "Why Did I Sleep So Long." I was wondering why that is...</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><br /></i>
Jack Blanchard: Yeah, I wonder about that too. I think we came out with the first one and we were having trouble with the label. So we had to come up with something else. Our publisher, the guy who was working with us, was Bill Hall. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He said, "Go in and cut something using the track we've already got, only make it different enough so that it's a completely different song." I don't remember the whole exchange exactly, but it was something like that.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You guys started recording for Mega Records. You released several singles on that label in the early 1970s.</span></b></i><br />
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b></i>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: They had some big hits right before we got there. One of them was "Help Me Make It Through The Night." We were doing really well with Mega. Our records were doing well and then we showed up at the office one day and everyone was looking sad. They said, "We're closing up. We're out of business." I never did figure out what went wrong. We went back on the road and I remember we pulled into a little gas station and the guy in the booth taking the money was the former Vice President of Mega Records. So things obviously weren't going too well. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I must say - all the labels we were with gave us free reign in the studio. We left Mercury because they wanted to put us with a producer - Jerry Kennedy. I knew Jerry and he was a nice guy, but we had been producing ourselves and it was working. We just didn't want to take any chances, so we left Mercury and went with Mega.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: Mega Records was located in Nashville?</i><br /><br />Jack Blanchard: Oh yeah, they had a big place next to Columbia. The big gospel music publisher was in that building. And our agent, Buddy Lee, was also in that building. The guy he had handling our account was actually one of the Ames Brothers, a real nice guy named Vic Ames.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Where did you live when you were recording in Nashville? I had read you sometimes parked at the Music City Campground.</span></b></i><br />
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b></i>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: Yes, we always did that. We liked that place. It was out on the edge of town. We had a Winnebago Chieftain that we'd park there. Our home base was Bill Hall's office. He helped us with everything. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: How about Ralph Emery? Y</i><i>ou guys did his show several times. </i><i>He was by far the most influential country music disc jockey. He was also a polarizing figure. A lot of people hated him and found him to be arrogant. </i></span></b><br />
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b></i>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: I had both. I loved him and I hated him. When we were first starting out he was on WSM all night. It was coast to coast on a clear channel station. He had all the stars on his show and everything. He was kind of grouchy when he did an interview with us. In fact, he said to me, "No one likes a phony." And I didn't appreciate that too well. A lot of the guys I was producing didn't like him either. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He and Misty were buddies. I think Ralph had a crush on her. One time we were on his show with Lorrie Morgan and Misty didn't get on with her at all. Lorrie took up the whole table in the dressing room and wouldn't get up until it was airtime. She just wasn't being friendly at all and I think it was maybe because there were two girls on the same show. I don't know. When we began doing TV with Ralph, that's when we started to get friendly. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Ralph liked my humor. Buddy Rich had been making nasty comments about country music around that time and people were taking it seriously. I had said, "Well, the good thing about drum records - you can't tell when they get scratched up. I have a Buddy Rich record with a crack in it - and it holds the whole number together." Ralph thought that was funny and the audience laughed. So he started bringing me on his show to be the funny guy. But then I got to be<i> too</i> funny. I'd catch Ralph off guard and he just didn't know how to respond. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">One time before we went on Ralph said to me, "Don't say anything that's going to embarrass me out there." Well, I <i>did</i>. If I think of what I'm going to say onstage ahead of time, it never comes off. I'm an ad-libber. We got out there and he said, "What have you two been doing recently?" I said, "We've been in Central Park living in a cardboard box." I don't know if he was mad, it was hard to tell with him sometimes, but he said, "I think I'll talk to Misty." </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">But I liked Ralph. I didn't have planned material like most people did. I just did things that made me laugh and I worked off the audience. Like Steve Allen. He was my hero. And he laughed at his own jokes because he hadn't heard them before. Steve Allen was one of the funniest guys. There was an episode where he was on the street and a guy came up to him and said, "I bet you've never had a dull moment." Steve Allen said, "I'm having one right now."</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: (laughs)</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b></div>
<span style="text-align: center;"><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: He was doing a signing and some woman got him to autograph her hand. She said, "I'm <i>never </i>going to wash my hand!" He said, "I'm going to go wash mine <i>immediately</i>." </span></b></span><br />
<span style="text-align: center;"><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b></span>
<span style="text-align: center;"><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: (laughs)</i></span></b></span><br />
<span style="text-align: center;"><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b></span>
<span style="text-align: center;"><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: I was looking at some Brother Theodore last night. Remember him? He used to be on those late night shows all the time. I saw him in a movie the other night so I was looking him up. He was one of those weird guys. So many good comedians like that got their start with Steve Allen.</span></b></span><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Final question. Whatever became of those big glasses you used to wear?</span></b></i><br />
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b></i>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: I still have one pair. I had bad eyes. When I was a kid, the optometrist made a living off of our family. He told us that I needed new glasses every six months. Well, it'd take me months to adjust to new glasses. I'd be dizzy for a whole week and then in a few months I'd have to go through the whole thing again - and it <i>destroyed </i>my eyes. I eventually got surgery and my vision has been 20/20 now for the last twenty years. But those glasses - I started wearing those when we reinvented ourselves with our new mod look. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I had one pair that had blue glass and another pair that had yellow glass. I had them especially made for me by a friend who was an optometrist in Orlando. Somebody called me up and told me about this old time country musician who had his own Country Music Hall of Fame so I donated a pair of glasses. But I still have one pair in the drawer - and they're really heavy. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"> <a href="https://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2020/08/an-interview-with-jack-blanchard-part_5.html">Return to Part One</a></span></b>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2398796842887862508.post-39303532290100228302020-08-09T00:00:00.000-07:002020-08-16T13:54:38.600-07:00An Interview with Jack Blanchard - Part Three<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Who was Rusty Diamond?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><br /></i>
Jack Blanchard: He was a guy from Salt Lake City. His real name was Jasper Leroy Barr. He had a mean talent for getting rich girls to back his records. We cut a country record in Miami that got some play. It was called the "Lonely Sentry" and it got picked up by Starday Records.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">It was the lead song on a Starday compilation called "Country Music Goes to War." It was one of those war songs where the singer talks between phrases. We had good Miami musicians on that session including a guy named Henry Cook. He invented the electric pedal banjo and it was the most unusual sound. Rusty was good at lining up the money thanks to these rich girls. That is until their rich fathers came after him. We went to Nashville together. We checked into a hotel and he tipped everyone fifty bucks. He called the best men's store in town and had them deliver a bunch of sizes but the guy didn't have <i>any</i> money of his own. We flew back to Miami and at the airport there was a crowd of girls to meet him and cops directing traffic. I found out later he hired all of them. He hired the girls and he hired the cops!</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Then he hired himself an expensive bodyguard. And then he went broke and had to run and hide from his own bodyguard! He was a real con artist. Later on I met up with him in California. He had a little trio playing a restaurant there. He begged us, got down on his knees in front of everyone, and asked if he could be our manager. It was embarrassing. Well, we <i>did </i>make him our manager - and the first thing he did was steal from us and then he turned the band against me.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You guys became the house band at a place called the Everglades Lounge.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: Yeah, we went into business with the guy who owned it. He paid the bills and handled all the business and we did everything else. We did music and comedy there from 1967 right through when <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNEqWn_m0uI">we had our biggest hit, "Tennessee Bird Walk</a>."</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: You guys have a song called "A Handful of Dimes" about a guy driving across the country to meet up with his lover. He stops at various pay phones to give her an update - using his handful of dimes. I have a love for songs about driving through the night or taking a bus to beat it </i><i>out of town or getting stuck at a crummy roadside motel... </i></span></b><br />
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<iframe allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/X2awyx1J0_8" width="425"></iframe><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: Yeah, I like those kinda songs too. That was the same session where we did <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppn2EQPPw_8">"Bethlehem Steel.</a>" It was done at an independent studio in Nashville. The background singers were the Anita Kerr Singers. </span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: One of the other gems from that recording session is the "Dum Song."</span></b></i><br />
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Jack Blanchard: Yeah, everybody likes that one. And I like it myself. It was like a fugue in country music.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: And the banjo player was someone notable.</span></b></i><br />
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Jack Blanchard: Oh yeah, Bobby Thompson. He was just great. He was on <i>Hee-Haw</i>, although they didn't shine much attention on him on that show.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">It was <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR7FAnQv-7U&t=03s">Lloyd Green who told</a> me, "He's the greatest banjo player in the world - give him a bunch of banjo solos." So I did. And we really liked it.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: It gives the "Dum Song" a unique vibe. It's got this great full-body sound.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: Yes, and we went on to use him again. We had him playing solos on several records.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: It's one of the best tracks in the Blanchard and Morgan songbook. On that same LP you do a cover of "You Got Your Troubles" by the Fortunes.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: Yes, they were from England. We changed the arrangement. We changed the bridge.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: And added some great steel guitar. How about Wayside Records? There's a great photo of you guys with a logo painted on the side of your car and it says Jack and Misty - Wayside Records.</span></b></i><br />
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<iframe allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/y7C5xZxnERo" width="425"></iframe><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: Yeah, that was a logo I drew. It was a circle that sort of looked like a 45 single and had birds flying. I wrote the name of the label at the bottom. We had owned two different Corvettes. The first one had a stick shift with a clutch that would cripple you. After a couple years we had to go to the doctor to see what was wrong with our left leg. So we went and got a different one and I put that insignia on the side again.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">We bought that first Corvette when we were working at the Everglades Lounge. We were making good money and it was probably the happiest time of our life, those three years before we had our big hit. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">We were working the Everglades and we were local stars. People came from miles around to see us and the place was packed. We bought our new Corvette and we had a nice home. It was just fun all the time, no hassles. We have fond memories of those years.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: I read that at one point Jerry Lee Lewis was going to cover "Bethlehem Steel." </span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: Jerry Lewis?</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: No, Jerry Lee Lewis.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><br /></i>
Jack Blanchard: Oh, Jerry Lee Lewis. No, I don't remember that. <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHRS8liAMu8">We had a lot of people cover the "Tennessee Bird Walk" </a>and I can't keep track of them all. I don't remember anyone covering "Bethlehem Steel," but Jerry Lee Lewis would have done a good job on it.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">We met Jerry Lee Lewis at some Mercury Records parties. "Bethlehem Steel" was originally on our own little label, Darn Records. We shopped it around to disc jockeys and radio stations to try and get it played. In fact, that's what we did with most of the records we made in Miami - and even Nashville.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">A disc jockey named Hoss Moss had a connection. He <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry8BWRrQxkk">knew Richie Johnson</a> at Wayside Records and called him up. They listened to our records and they picked us up. We were hustlers. We were so broke at one point that Misty and I walked the streets homeless so we always had to hustle.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j_7wGYtevg">Big Black Bird charted in December 1968</a> and you guys started appearing on television. There was a regional program called The Tom Halleck Show. </span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><br /></i>
Jack Blanchard: Yeah, he moved to Hollywood and became an actor. He was trying to be a Johnny Carson. He was a little conceited, but not a bad guy. It was a local show covering most of the counties around Orlando.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: After <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0xKU1xgHfU">your novelty song "Tennessee Bird Walk" became a big hit</a>, you started to appear on national programs like The Mike Douglas Show. You were on an episode with Jackie Gleason and Frank Fontaine.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: Jackie Gleason was very friendly <a href="https://oldshowbiz.tumblr.com/post/618948865644691457/frank-fontaine">and Frank Fontaine was real nice</a>. Everybody was. I was more nervous for that appearance than anything we had ever done. We had new arrangements by a famous arranger and I didn't feel comfortable with them. We got there early and had a rehearsal at four in the afternoon.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Gleason and Mike Douglas were up in the fifth row watching us and that made me a little nervous too. When we did the actual show, one of us walked to the wrong mark and the cameras had to find us. Everything seemed to go wrong, but everyone said they liked it. </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">We got to go on the actual set of <i>The Honeymooners </i>that week.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: How did you end up on The Honeymooners set?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><br /></i>
Jack Blanchard: They were just showing us around down there. Jackie Gleason was a very gentlemanly host. We did a ten minute segment on <i>The Mike Douglas Show </i>in which I debated spiritualism with Gleason. I've got a tape of it in the shed. I really should take it down to a place to have it transferred so I can play it, but I'm afraid to look at it. We were on <i>The Mike Douglas Show </i>maybe ten times. We did an episode with Carol Channing...</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Carol Channing was so sweet. She would go out and get coffee for everybody. She was one of the nicest people we ever worked with. <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm4R1ntaGN0">Gene Nelson, the dancer and actor</a>, was also on that show. And we did another episode with Cass Elliot and another with Totie Fields. Totie Fields was a lot of fun, but Cass Elliot was very reserved around us, I don't know why. And we did another with Arthur Godfrey.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Most of the time we had to go to Philadelphia to do <i>The Mike Douglas Show</i>, but for the Jackie Gleason episode it was in Miami. We also did a Jack and Misty special for PBS. The main studio was in Pittsburgh and we went up there and did it, but I never got to see it. I have no idea if it was any good.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You guys started touring with other country artists in a series of grandstand shows. You were playing Ames, Iowa with Carl Smith and Hugh X. Lewis...</span></b></i><br />
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Jack Blanchard: I don't remember that one, but our first big gig after "Tennessee Bird Walk" was <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivCeOSrSQ88">with Jimmy Dean</a>. It was a theater in the round in Salt Lake City. We went on to perform with Merle Haggard and then we did a couples tour with George Jones and Tammy Wynette and Jack Greene and Jeannie Seely.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I didn't get to see any of them perform because we were always backstage getting ready to go on. But we were traveling in a motor home at the time and George and Tammy came and knocked on the door of our motor home and had coffee with us and were awfully nice.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You guys were doing these Grand Ole Opry tours and then you started to appear in Nashville on the actual Grand Ole Opry. This was a period when Nashville was at war with itself - the old school traditionalists versus the new long-haired pot smokers. I was wondering what kind of a reaction you guys got with your way-out look at the time - the glasses and the fashion and so on.</span></b></i><br />
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Jack Blanchard: Yeah, we actually got a great reaction. The audience was wonderful. We went out there and just sang and it went over big. It was the old Ryman Auditorium. It was hot in there with no air conditioning. They passed out these little fans to the audience, a stick with a big cardboard thing that said, "I'm a Jack and Misty Fan."</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: It must have been amazing for you guys to be on that stage.</span></b></i><br />
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Jack Blanchard: Oh yeah, it was, sure.</span></b><br />
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<i>Kliph Nesteroff: What about some of the comedians that were around like Grandpa Jones and Minnie Pearl...</i></span></b><br />
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Jack Blanchard: Oh, our best friends on the road were <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt7vfbObOeU">Grandpa Jones</a> and <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpfJwUyONnc">Archie Campbell</a>. Boy, those guys were great and we spent a lot of time with them.<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS2dvB_9hX8&t=0m2s"> Lonzo and Oscar were also great to us</a>. They were the ones who talked us into getting a motor home because they traveled in a real nice one. We got to know everybody. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">We worked with everybody except for Buck Owens. His manager asked us if we would open for him. We said sure and he said, "I'll call you," but he never did. I bumped into him at some show and he explained, "Buck doesn't want to have to follow you." We were booked on <i>Hee Haw</i> - or were supposed to be - with Archie Campbell and all those guys.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">They set it up with the producer, Sam Lovullo, and we went down there on the date that they said. We got there and everyone had this look on their face and they wouldn't make eye contact. We knew something was wrong.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">We went into Sam's office and he said, "I'm really sorry that I made you come all the way here. Everyone at the show wants you, but Buck Owens won't have it. He's singing with a girl now and he's a business man and this is business." </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span style="text-align: center;">He was doing duets with a woman named Susan Raye and he wouldn't have us on his show. So he went ahead and did our song with her on <i>Hee Haw - </i>and<i> </i>we never got to do the show ourselves.</span></span></b><br />
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<iframe allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/P5MMVNj_bks" width="425"></iframe><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"> <a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2020/08/an-interview-with-jack-blanchard-part_16.html">Go to Part Four</a></span></b>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2398796842887862508.post-77206169875078081242020-08-07T00:00:00.000-07:002020-08-12T00:05:09.489-07:00An Interview with Jack Blanchard - Part Two<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You produced a record for a guy named King Houston on the Cincinnati based King Records, arguably the most important label in rhythm and blues history. It was an important country label too.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: King Houston's actual name was Houston King and for some reason we changed it around. I guess we thought King Houston sounded more country. He was a used car salesman and owned a used car lot. He was a rough guy too, but he was fine with me. He had such an extreme southern accent that it was hard for me not to laugh.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He had trouble with my songs, couldn't do them, couldn't learn them, but he was a real nice guy. I said, "All right, well, if you can't do mine, we'll just do your songs." One of them was callled "Steppin' on My Heart"and I had to stand beside him and tap him on the shoulder when it was time for him to sing. King Records was affiliated with Starday Records at the time.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: I found an ad from 1960 for a gig you did at the Downstairs at the Seville. You were on the bill with Sammy Ambrose, the King of the Limbo. Do you remember anything about that?</span></b></i><br />
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<i><br /></i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">
Jack Blanchard: Sure, yeah, and there was a great woman singer on that show too, I can't remember her name.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Esther Sutherland?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bsAZxGkUo0\">Esther Sutherland, yeah</a>. She was really good and so was <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7986GYuEIz4\">Sammy Ambrose</a>. We were the alternate band. There were a lot of those places around Miami and Lauderdale with two or three bands that would rotate. So I never really got to know the other guys because when we were offstage they were onstage. That's funny that you dug that up.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Miami Beach and Fort Lauderdale were both important to showbiz in those days. So many performers, so many venues. You were fronting the Jackie Blanchard Quartet and one review said you guys were doing impressions of Les Paul and Mary Ford along with Louis Prima and Keeley Smith.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><br /></i>
Jack Blanchard: Yeah, well, we were just doing their songs - and we were doing them really well because our band could really rock. We didn't actually<i> </i>sound like Louis Prima and Keeley Smith, but we were trying to get attention. It was more about getting the crowd.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: I have a listing for the Jackie Blanchard Quartet at the Calypso Village.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><br /></i>
Jack Blanchard: I'm not sure where that is. I don't remember it.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: The newspaper blurb said, "The Jackie Blanchard Quartet are playing the Calypso Village, formerly known as Porky's Hideaway..."</span></b></i><br />
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Jack Blanchard: Oh, okay! I remember it as Porky's. Porky was the owner. For that movie <i>Porky's, </i>they recreated the building. I was playing vibes then. It was me, a guitar player, a drummer, and Misty. And it was <i>really </i>rough. The legs on the stools were all rotten and they would go right through the floor and people would fall to the ground all the time! I remember some guy threw an ash tray at our guitar player. I went across the stage and grabbed the guy. Porky was a nice guy, but that place was a bad situation.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: I assume it was another Mob-run nightclub.</span></b></i><br />
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Jack Blanchard: Oh yeah, it was definitely gangster-ish in there. We didn't fit because we were playing jazz at the time. They didn't want jazz so we didn't stay at Porky's very long.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: There was a place called the Time-Out Lounge in Miami Beach. It was a club that was open all-night long. The shows kept going until seven in the morning.</span></b></i><br />
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Jack Blanchard: (laughs) Oh, yeah. They wanted three different piano players to alternate all night until seven in the morning and it was like an eight hour job. The sun would shine in whenever someone walked in. The sun rays would blind everybody and they would shout, "Shut the door!"</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: The Time-Out Lounge advertisement said you played it with Gloria Blake, Donna Lori, and an emcee named Ben Tracey.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><br /></i>
Jack Blanchard: I don't remember any of those people.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: May 1961. Another unusual venue - the Robin Hood Restaurant and Forest Lounge.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><br /></i>
Jack Blanchard: Oh yeah, that was a very nice English restaurant. I never thought of English food as gourmet, but the food was really good there. I think we played there for several months. The owner had a crush on Misty. He invited her to dinner and not the rest of us.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">They had rum rolls that you could get drunk on. If you ate rum rolls and <i>didn't </i>get drunk, that meant the <i>chef</i> was drunk. The place was all Robin Hood themed. They had colored glass with a Robin Hood design. One of their main features was this roast beef which rotated on a huge spit about six feet high. You'd pour the juices back on it and I remember it being the best I ever had.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Another venue you guys played was called Pier 66.</span></b></i><br />
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Jack Blanchard: Yeah, a society<i> </i>gig. That place had a good society band. They were the house band and we were just passing through. It was alright. We had to play light jazz.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: At the time your future wife Misty Morgan was being billed as Mary Male.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: Yeah, we changed her name to Misty Morgan when we started doing records in Nashville. It was during our recording session in Key West that we changed our whole look. I wore those big glasses and we started to dress very mod. I started singing in a harsh bass, using a deeper voice. We changed everything.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: Another of the venues you were playing in the early 1960s - </i><i>the Outpost Cocktail Lounge.</i></span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><br /></i>
Jack Blanchard: Another little place in Hialeah, Florida that was gangster-owned. They had a funny bartender who was basically a comedian. He acted sort of like Pee Wee Herman behind the bar.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">We were doing hard jazz and the wife of the gangster booked all the acts. Her husband was a dangerous, violent guy. He would come in sometimes when he was mad and he would knock all the whiskey bottles off the bar and start ranting. I remember one time he beat up the cook. </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">The second time we appeared, his wife booked us for more money. So he</span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"> sat me down in a booth and said, "You took advantage of my wife! You come back in here for more money than the last time? Why would you do that?" I said, "We were underpaid the last time." I thought he was going to take a swing at me. Instead he said, "You remind me of me. That's how I got where I am."</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: There was another of these till-the-sun-comes-out venues called the Seminole Lounge.</span></b></i><br />
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Jack Blanchard: That was also in Hialeah. You worked from eight in the evening until four in the morning, but you took an hour break in the middle which didn't help. After the racetrack closed they got a new crowd coming in so they gave you an hour in between while the audience changed over. Yeah, we played there for quite a while. It stifled us a lot, but that is when Misty and I started singing together. We did duets as Jack and Mary and that's where it began.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">That place stifled us because you had a bunch of old fogies in the audience. The guy who owned the place, his sister was an old Sophie Tucker type of entertainer. She belonged to American Guild of Variety Artists and she was telling us what to do and how to do it. That was annoying. And then there was a drunk at the bar who knocked his wife off the stool. I tried to step in, but he was going to kill me. It was just a rough joint. One night a guy came in after he won at the track. He tipped us a hundred dollars, which would be like fifteen hundred today. Misty and I went to an all-night restaurant and had pizza and champagne.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You guys played the Richley Country Club in Texas in 1962.</span></b></i><br />
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Jack Blanchard: Yeah, I remember they stuck foam rubber in the piano because they felt it was too loud for the crowd. We had a guitar player named Merle who later became an executive with Gibson guitars. The three of us went over big at that club. I remember they had a jungle in the window with a live sloth. I caught the flu when I was there and they got a doctor for me and gave me a few nights off and were just wonderful to us. I'll never forget how nice they were to me.</span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large; text-align: center;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff: How about the Casbah Supperclub in Akron, Ohio?</i><br /><br />Jack Blanchard: I don't remember that. I remember playing a place called Nick Yanko's in Akron.</b></span><br />
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<i style="text-align: center;"><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Yes, that's the place.</span></b></i><br />
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<span style="text-align: center;"><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: Oh, God, that was a nightmare! The star of the show was a belly dancer. I had a set of conga drums with my drum set. I was always the utility man. The belly dancer would come over and play my bongos with her boobs. That pissed Misty off something awful. And we had nothing but trouble with the maitre'd and Nick Yanko who owned the place. I stopped taking their crap and we left as soon as our contract was up. But Akron was a good town for us. Whenever we had a record out, we had big bookings there and all the big radio stations played us. So I had nothing against Akron.</span></b><i><br /></i></span><br />
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<span style="text-align: center;"><br /><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: What was the problem with Nick Yanko?</i><br /><br />Jack Blanchard: He was running a Greek restaurant with Greek decor and belly dancers. We had nothing against that, but we couldn't <i>become </i>that. We just didn't fit in there. </span></b></span><br />
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<span style="text-align: center;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: A venue you guys played a lot was El Bolero in Miami.</i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="text-align: center;">Jack Blanchard: Movie stars used to come in there all the time. Richard Nixon came in once. We had a drink with him and he played the piano. The place was full of celebrities and rich people and they loved me. We tried to do some comedy there and it went over well, although I think the audience was just being polite. </span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large; text-align: center;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff: Did you have ambitions of becoming a comedian instead of a musician? </i><br /><br />Jack Blanchard: Well, my family were all comedians, but they didn't do it for a living. They were like the Algonquin Round Table, sitting around, always trying to make each other laugh. And that's why I got thrown out of high school. I thought it was more important to make the class laugh than to do the work. When I started working as a musician, I'd get hired to play a show - and although I wasn't hired to tell jokes - I did. I didn't have planned material, but I'd talk about funny things going on. </b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><span style="text-align: center;">It was non-sequitur humor, nothing topical. I worked with the audience. We worked Washington, D.C. where we used to do </span><span style="text-align: center;">a big disc jockey program called </span><span style="text-align: center;"><i>Harden and Weaver. </i>We got booked in this nice hotel and I talked to the audience there and funny stuff would come out of it. I was always a little apprehensive when I got into it because - what if I wasn't funny? But it always came to me in the moment. </span></b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large; text-align: center;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: Your songwriting has a humorous streak. You seemed to oscillate between comedy and poetry in your lyrics, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obslh1clzPU&t=21s">not unlike Roger Miller</a>. </b></i></span><br />
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<span style="text-align: center;"><i><br /></i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: Roger and I would talk whenever we ran into each other. We arrived for the recording session of "Somewhere in Virginia in the Rain" at Columbia and when we showed up I could see through one of the windows that Roger was doing a session. We went into our studio and a half hour into our session Roger walked in. He was dressed real nice and carrying a briefcase. I stopped the session and walked over. I was going to put out my hand and say, "I'm a fan of yours," but he put out <i>his </i>hand and said, "I'm a fan of yours." And so we got to talking and later on Misty and I attended a couple of the parties that he threw at the King of the Road Motor Inn. </span></b></span><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: What was the King of the Road Motor Inn like?</span></b></i><br />
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Jack Blanchard: Oh, it was far out. The decor there was like something out of <i>Popeye</i>. The windows were like the port holes on a boat and everything was bright yellow, bright blue, and bright orange. Even the shower curtains and everything. It was a good place.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: I want to ask you about the song "Gemini." This is one of your early songwriting credits and it became a hit for the Ventures. How did they end up recording your song?</span></b></i><br />
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Jack Blanchard: There was a song called <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=argZXmg0Q0M&t=0m02s">"Telstar" by the Tornados</a>. I thought I could write a song sort of like that so <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfRs5AcZcic">I came up with "Gemini."</a> We did it with good session players at a studio in Miami. I co-wrote it with a guy who was much older than us. He was in his sixties and we were in our twenties. It was a local hit. It got played on the rock stations in Miami. We got a phone call while we were playing El Bolero. It was the record label that had the Ventures. They said the Ventures wanted to cover it, but they wanted the publishing rights. I said, "How about half and half? I think we should keep half the publishing rights." They wouldn't do it. I didn't know much about business. I probably should have just agreed, but I didn't. And then they did the song and it appeared on two of their albums. And we have never gotten a penny from it! They just released it without our permission and we never received a royalty or anything.</span></b><br />
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<i><br /><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Let's talk about <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwyhp0b_qhc">Starday Records. Roger Miller got his start</a> there. And<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac1VRXyfTDo"> George Jones</a>. </span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvG5EwegY0E">And Willie Nelson</a>.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You sold some songs that got recorded by Hank Malcolm at Starday. Who was Hank Malcom? </span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: Well, he used to be a friend of mine, but he's an idiot now. He was the first guy I produced in Nashville. We drove up in a car with no heater in the middle of winter. I wrote several songs for him. One of the best ones was called "Mary Turn Around." Starday bought the songs and put them out. I was doing that for quite a while.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">And then I lost track of him. He went out on his own and started doing shows. I didn't see him for a long, long time and then one day he came and fixed a washer and dryer that Misty was having trouble with. He seemed a little bit off and was maybe going senile. The last time I called him was about a year ago. He said, "I can't believe you're calling me after selling my albums<i> </i>and keeping the money!" I said, "What albums? What are you talking about?" He said, "Ha! I think you know!" I had no idea what he was talking about. I had put a bunch of old songs <a href="https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=69863">on Soundclick</a> so I could link to them. Somebody told him that he was number twenty-two on the Soundclick chart. Well, if seven people listen to a song on there it would be considered number one. Anyway, he was still thinking this is the Billboard charts era. He was under the impression he was number 22 on the charts and that I was profiting from it. I haven't spoken to him since.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: What was the atmosphere at Starday Records like in the early 1960s? It was a small studio, but a factory of great country music.</span></b></i><br />
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Jack Blanchard: Yes. They had a house band, a Starday band, and they were damn good. The back-up singers were <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0J4jSvRMCc">called the Harden Trio</a> and they'd bring in Ray King to sing bass sometimes.<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxeS1LdUz-8"> Tommy Hill was the house producer</a>, although I was the producer on all the recordings I did there. In the house band Tommy Hill played rhythm guitar, Jerry Smith was on piano, Junior Husky played upright bass, and Jerry Shook played lead guitar. <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_i10rmmUsg&t=50s">And the steel player was my favorite - Pete Drake - and he really made the whole session</a>.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Pete Drake was an absolute genius. <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTH0cUereHw">He was the best of any steel player I ever worked with</a>. He was in demand with all kinds of people. He produced an album for the Four Freshmen. I'd go sit in his office and sit around and talk with him all the time. I was there when he produced an album for Ernest Tubb. He had Tubb record his songs and then Pete brought in all of Ernest's friends. Each of them sang on a track so that it came out like a duet - but they didn't tell Ernest. So when it came out they had trouble with copyrights and who owned what. It took <i>years </i>before that album had a proper release.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Pete Drake was best known for the hose-like contraption he called the Singing Steel Guitar. It looked like something out of a science fiction movie.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: Yes. He never used the singing steel guitar with us, but he could do <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhM6C62seVA">more fancy licks on a session than anyone</a>. The other big steel player <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj4pbJcVDj8">was Lloyd Green and he worked with us on a hundred sessions. I really like Lloyd Green</a>, but if you wanted someone to add a little hook to the record, Lloyd was a little conservative. But Pete Drake would take chances. Someone said to me, "Boy, Lloyd Green sure had a heyday with your track 'Bethlehem Steel,' didn't he?" But it wasn't Lloyd Green. It was Pete Drake.</span></b><br />
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<iframe allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ppn2EQPPw_8" width="425"></iframe><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"> <a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2020/08/an-interview-with-jack-blanchard-part_9.html">Continue to Part Three</a></span></b></div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2398796842887862508.post-45146174649007748492020-08-05T16:17:00.000-07:002020-08-16T12:57:56.092-07:00An Interview with Jack Blanchard - Part One<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: I was working in factories and I wanted to get out of there really, really bad. There were a bunch of guys from the factory who got together and sang every Wednesday or Thursday night. I would play the rhythm guitar with them, but they really couldn't sing. Only one of them could sing, so he and I broke off and formed a group called the Dawn Breakers.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">We went through four or five sets of people until we finally found the ones who ended up on the record. I wrote original songs and arranged all the music and harmony. I'd sing it to the guys and they were pretty quick in picking it up. We went down to a little place in Buffalo called the Hal Studio. They recorded directly to disc. There was no tape then, at least not there. If you made a mistake on these old time sessions, you had to throw it away and they'd have to put a whole new disc on. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I played the piano and sang harmony. We had a band from Niagara Falls back us up. So we got our acetate disc and we shopped it around to the record distributors in Buffalo. We finally made a connection with a Buffalo deejay. His show was called <i>Hernando's Hideaway</i>, but his name was actually something else. He had some connections at Decca Records and their subsidiary Coral.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">We got on Coral with a song I wrote called "Boy with the Be-Bop Glasses." The other side was a Four Aces style number called "Things I Love," which I did an arrangement for. We put it out and it was a local hit. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">We got bookings not only all over Buffalo, but in Pennsylvania and up in Canada. It never went national or got on Billboard, but we were big stars locally. We got lots of gigs out of it - and then it died out. I escaped from Buffalo and went to Miami.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I got to Miami and started playing a club called the King of Hearts. It was where Sam and Dave got their start, the guys who did "Soul Man." I was playing organ, piano, and left-hand bass. I was still thinking about making records. It was a gangster-owned place. A Mob-owned place. They had a little record label called Mida. The guy who owned the place was named Johnny so I wrote a song called "Johnny was the King of Hearts." It was tailor-made to try to get him to pay for a recording session. A session was around $150 in those days and I was working six nights a week for $70 total.</span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /><b>We went down to a studio owned by a guy named Frank Linale. He was the manager of <a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2012/09/an-interview-with-babe-pier.html">a famous comedy team called the Vagabonds</a>. His wife and child were murdered shortly before we recorded there and I could see it in his eyes. It was hard for him to concentrate. We made the record and it wasn't too good, but at least we were on a record. One side was rock n' roll and the other side was a ballad. It got a little local play, but went nowhere.</b></span><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Then I got a call from somebody with the state government who was doing a film about the Everglades called <i>Million Acre Playground</i>. They wanted someone to write the music. It was something I had never done before, timing music to the scenes, but I bluffed my way into it. And I got my name in the credits at the end.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I bought a little place on the V.A. Loan in Carol City, Florida and had an office in the back. Singers started coming to me to produce records for them. Most of them were country singers. I made a deal where they'd pay my way to Nashville and have to record at least two of my songs if I produced them.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I started producing at a place called Starday Records in Nashville. It was a major label. I have quite a few songs on Starday, although I never sang on any of them. They were all done for different artists. That got me started and I bummed around Music Row for quite some time until Misty and I finally started singing together. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: Eventually you two married and became famous as Jack and Misty and I want to talk about that, but first </i><i>I want to learn more about the King of Hearts Club in Miami. You once said that it had thirteen different bouncers.</i></span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jack Blanchard: (laughs) Yeah, it did! And a few of them were <i>really </i>crazy. They were waiting to see blood. They were dangerous. I think everybody is dead now so they can't kill me. On the weekends the guy that ran the place would send these bouncers out robbing places! A friend of mine, Bob McCoy, used to sit in there and play cards with them. He wasn't one of the bouncers - but he got mixed up with them - and he got <i>killed</i>.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">They had tried to rob a high school! I hated to see him get killed. I mean, why would anyone try rob a high school? When I finally left that club, that's when I started working with Misty.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">We picked up a guitar player and we worked some good and bad places. But it's funny, for the first year that we performed together, Misty and I never even thought of doing duets. But all the connections I made in Nashville while doing stuff for Starday helped us when we finally started recording together.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">There was a guy named Dick Gillespie. He said he won an Emmy for producing the <i>Colgate Comedy Hour. </i>He owned a country station south of Miami and he was a funny guy. I talked to him one night when he was having dinner at this club we were playing.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Gillespie said, "You have nothing to sell. Nobody wants to walk across the street just to see two singers. What you have to do is go home and work out a whole new style. Dress differently. Change your whole appearance. Make it something that will attract attention, but don't try it out here where everyone knows you because nobody will buy it." So we went to Key West to play a lounge down there. It was just Misty and me. She was playing organ and I was just playing the drums.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">We had a song called "Bethlehem Steel." Two guys came into the club. One was an air force captain and the other was a sergeant in the army. They came in and sat down and ended up signing us to a four-song contract in Nashville with the condition they would manage us if anything came of it. So we went to Nashville and cut "Bethlehem Steel" and three other songs. The song got play and everyone got excited. A label picked us up called Wayside, which led to us being picked up by Mercury Records...</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">"Bethlehem Steel" died out from lack of promotion, but we put out another record called "Big Black Bird" with a sort of haunting melody and it caught on. It got heavy play and Mercury Records wanted to pick it up. Wayside made a deal with them, but they didn't trust them. They were just a small company and weren't very hip. When they sent the master to Mercury, they left a big blank space in the middle so that they wouldn't steal it. But this meant the record couldn't come out when it was needed. Mercury wanted it in a hurry when it was hot. By the time Wayside sent them a proper master, it was too late. All the airplay on it had dropped. But as a result we were now on Mercury Records.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"> <a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2020/08/an-interview-with-jack-blanchard-part.html">Continue to Part Two</a></span></b>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2398796842887862508.post-19206084095516201272020-06-29T18:07:00.001-07:002020-08-05T14:52:12.295-07:00An Interview with Jackie Curtiss - Part Eight <div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You were close friends with Dave Madden. People know him from Laugh-In and the Partridge Family, but not his stand-up career.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: Yes, that's how he got started. He was a stand-up comic and he met a guy named Marshall Edson who became his manager. Marshall owned Ye Little Club, which was a small place in Beverly Hills.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He went in there for a long time and then while he was there he got a sitcom called <i>Camp Runamuck</i>. That didn't last, but from that he got on <i>Laugh-In. </i>Dave was always doing stand-up in between.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Of course, <i>Laugh-In</i> put him over the top. He was a really, really funny guy and very offbeat. He was quiet and he did a lot of subtle things. He did a bit about smoking where he says he has been smoking a very long time - but not very much. He'd pull out a package of World War Two era Lucky's and never comment on it. So you had to be hip to catch the stuff he did.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Ye Little Club was where Joan Rivers worked when she was on the West Coast.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: A lot of stars went in there to work out. Sometimes there wasn't even a piano, only a bass. It was very, very tiny. I worked there for a while when they needed a host. A lot of stars would go in and perform for a couple weeks to try out new material.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">When I had my nightclub at Beverly and Pico, the Trolly Ho, Dave Madden heard about it. He walked in off the street and introduced himself. At the Trolly Ho, at the end of the night, I'd introduce whatever stars were in attendance and ask them if they would like to get up.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Dave got up and that's how we first got to know each other. We became fast friends. I went through a terrible divorce and then ended up living with him. We were roommates for a couple of years. He was one of my best friends over the years. He was fantastic. Hard to get along with because he's so eccentric - but you can't help but love him.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: By the late 1980s he had sort of disappeared from view. Did he basically retire?</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: He is the definition of the word curmudgeon. Well, yes, he retired, but when you say retired to him... he still did things. He did tremendous voice overs. He put in a fibre-optic line direct into his house so that he could do it through any phone. He did commercials over the phone and never had to go into any studio.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He was big in that industry. They were often looking for people "with a Dave Madden voice." He lived in Florida. When I got letters from him they were marked Maddenville, Florida. I thought, "Dave Madden moved to a town named Maddenville? I do not understand."</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He explained it to me, "Jackie, your mail is delivered based on the zip code, not the name of the town. You can put Curtissville, California on a letter and as long as you have the right zip code it will get there." So that was just his sense of humor. Nothing, no matter how mundane, was ever normal with him.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Do you remember a comedian named Dave Astor?</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: Dave Astor did a lot of stuff in the south. I met him a couple of times. He was very funny as I remember. Actually, he was one of those people who came into the Trolly Ho who I brought up onstage.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You were one of the main Playboy Club comedians.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: I opened eight or nine of their clubs.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Another comedian who was always associated with the Playboy Club was also named Jackie. I'm speaking of Jackie Gayle.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: Absolutely. He was their number one guy long before I got there. He was a really brilliant comic, but he was also probably the most brilliant pain in the ass you could ever meet. He made enemies out of everybody.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">First of all, he was a very good Jewish comedian, but he was jealous of <i>everybody</i>. He had been Hef's favorite mascot. When I came into Playboy with my partner we, for some reason, became Hef's number one. And Jackie Gayle resented us for it.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">So he started saying things about me in his act about how I wasn't a nice guy. I had never even met him! We came into Chicago two days early. The way the Playboy Club worked in Chicago... they had two showrooms and a living room, which was the template they had later for their other places. It was a real work house.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">When you went in there for a week, you did three shows Monday through Thursday. Four on Friday and Saturday and <i>five </i>on Sunday. I mean, you'd start the shows in the afternoon. You worked the playroom while at the same time, in the penthouse, there was another act doing their thing with a trio.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">When they finished, the comic and trio would come downstairs. And then you would go upstairs and do <i>that </i>room. So they had tandem shows going, two different acts, all night long. Because of that, the Playboy Clubs made a <i>lot </i>of money.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">So my partner and I went in to see Jackie Gayle at the Playboy Club when we first arrived in town. I was really taken with him because his act was really very good. He came offstage and I walked up to him and said, "Excuse me, Mr. Gayle?" He said, "Yeth?" He had a lisp. I said, "What's your problem?" He looked at me, "Wha?" I said, "Yeah! That's right! I said - what's your problem? Why are you bad mouthing me all over the place?"</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He said, "I don't even know who the hell you are!" I said, "Yeah, that makes it all the worse! I'm Jackie Curtiss." Well, of course, his eyes popped wide open. He had already heard about my reputation for being a scrapper. I took no shit from anybody. I would punch first and that was it.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">All of a sudden he was, "Oh, oh, oh, come now, this is all a mistake. I was just joking..." I said, "I don't know what your fucking problem is, but it stops <i>now</i>. If one more word gets back to me, I will come to you and you won't be able to <i>do </i>your stupid fucking act."</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">From that point on we were like friendly enemies. It was always courteous, but he wasn't too great a guy. </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I shouldn't say anything bad about Jackie, but... nobody liked him. </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He's dead now and was a great comic so... whatever... my personal thing... my association with him... it doesn't mean anything anyway.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He really had a lot of enemies. Lenny loved him. Hef loved him. The people at Playboy loved him and he had his following. He was a really good comic, but it just burned him up that we opened all the clubs for Hef instead of him.</span></b><br />
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<i><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>Kliph Nesteroff: He was very close with Lenny Bruce.<br /></b></span></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: Yes, he was the closest. He was closer to Lenny than anyone. Even though I used to babysit Lenny's daughter. Lenny and Jackie were absolutely close - and with Lenny's mother too - Sally Marr.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: When I phoned you last year, Stan Irwin, the former entertainment director of the Sahara Hotel in Las Vegas, was at your house.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: I talk to Stan Irwin a couple times a month. I think he's now ninety-eight. He's still working. He works at Costco.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Yeah, you mentioned that. That's so strange. I guess it's a good reason to get out of the house and stay active?</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curitss: No, not at all! About ten years ago a manager wiped him out. Took off with everything. Stan had been so wealthy because of Las Vegas. He was with the Sahara from the very beginning. I knew Stan when he was the house booker at the Sahara. <a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2011/10/interview-with-stan-irwin.html">Didn't you interview him recently?</a></span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2011/10/interview-with-stan-irwin.html"><br /></a>
<i><a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2011/10/interview-with-stan-irwin.html">Kliph Nesteroff: Yeah, I spoke with him last year</a>, but was curious as to his health.</i></span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: Boy, he's better than me. He's out every week working at Costco. He's behind one of those things and says, "Come on over, we got this juicer, check it out and drink this sample."</span></b><br />
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<i>Kliph Nesteroff: My God. Where is this Costco? Does he walk there?</i></span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: He drives! I tell you, he's better than me! I'm eighty-six and struggling with the walker.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: When did you first meet Lenny Bruce?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: I met Lenny Bruce in San Francisco when I was still a singer with the Jack Fina Orchestra. An acquaintance introduced me. I was a singer before I became a comic. When I became a comedian I got in touch with Lenny to tell him I was doing comedy now. Through the years we would meet for a bite to eat.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I must say, there were some things that Lenny did that were just... I don't know. After the Playboy Club closed for the night we would meet at the Thunderbird Cafe. It was downstairs from the Playboy Club and I'd meet him there in the morning. He was working two or three clubs around Los Angeles at the time.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: When you met him - you were still a band singer. Was he still an impressionist?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: Yes. He was doing a pretty staid act. He had just met Honey. I never met her. Even when I babysat for them it was a thing where they both had to work that night and I just ended up with the baby.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Did you know Pat Morita when he was a stand-up comedian? He was managed by Lenny Bruce's mother.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: Yes, he was a very funny little guy and I gave him a couple of jokes. I gave him a line, "You know, December 7th is my high holidays." He was on marijuana all the time. He said he had a kinship with Tony Bennett - who was also high all of the time.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: That wasn't as uncommon in those days as people think, though.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: It wasn't that uncommon, but you didn't usually say it out loud.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Pat Morita talked about being high onstage?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: He was high all the time. He would come onstage smoking a joint. People thought it was a gag. They didn't realize what it was.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Pat Morita got his break through Sally Marr. He was managed by Sally and that's how he became close with Lenny. Sally had all these comics. Pat Morita was her Japanese stand-up comic and Hank Oser was her Mexican comic. I think Hank Oser had been a ventriloquist originally. He was a comedian you'd see around Reno or Tahoe.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sally Marr had two or three comics that she pushed on the Playboy circuit and Pat Morita was one of them. He had a unique act. His gimmick was "The Hip Nip." He called himself "The Hip Nip" and did jokes about being Japanese.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He was a regular Playboy Club comedian along with Jackie Gayle and the <a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2013/09/an-interview-with-professor-irwin-corey.html">Professor Irwin Corey. I talked to Irwin Corey when he was ninety-nine</a>. He asked me how old I was. I told him eighty-six. He said, "Eighty-six? Aw shit, that's not even old! If I was eighty-six I'd be humping!"</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: (laughs) Y</i><i>our last gig with your comedy partner Bill Tracy was at the Playboy Club.</i></span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: Yeah, it was <i>really</i> good as far as shows went, but it was also very sad. I needed to go do my own thing, but Bill was begging me after the second show, "Jackie, please. Can't we do six more months together?" I said, "Bill, it's Saturday and on Monday night I am opening at Playboy in Denver. It's over." That was it. It took two or three years for him to get back on track. He really resented it and held it against me. His wife had a baby that was stillborn after that and he blamed me. We got through it though and made up later. He joined the Modernaires and we were still good friends when he died.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">And Irwin Corey - I'm grateful to you, Kliph, for putting us back in touch. Irwin and I became fast friends when we were booked together many times at the Playboy Clubs. He'd be playing in one room and I in the other, but we lost touch over the years. <a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2015/06/an-interview-with-jeremy-vernon-part-one.html">One of the other Playboy regulars was Jeremy Vernon. He looked like a poor man's Cary Grant</a>. He was excellent and did wonderful impressions.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: When you were running the Los Angeles Playboy Club - were you in charge of booking the acts?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: Yes. They were going to close the club and so I flew to Chicago and I got Hef's permission to take charge of it. I booked all male singers. The reason I did that was, I figured, you go to the Playboy Club - as soon as you open the door you get hit with tits and ass and there's nothing for women to look at. So I booked nothing but handsome guy singers. That's how I got stuck with <a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2012/11/an-interview-with-kenny-colman.html">that ass I told you about - Kenny Colman</a>. But for the most part, the male singer policy <i>really </i>worked.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I would put the singer on, then I'd get up and do twenty minutes, and then I'd introduce the guests in the audience. One night alone I had Sammy Davis Jr., Count Basie, and David Janssen all onstage at the same time. Some of my friends like Redd Foxx would swing by to break in new stuff. Redd would come in twice a week and get up. The year I took over I put them back in the black and saved the room. They were planning on closing it down right before I got there.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: What do you remember about Redd Foxx's nightclub? It was originally the popular Slate Brothers club on La Cienega. Redd Foxx took it over in 1967.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: Redd didn't do that well with it because he was not a good businessman. He didn't really know how to run it. It was kind of "heavy Black" and a lot of white people avoided it because of that. This was the time of Black Power and stuff like that.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">When the Slate Brothers ran it, they did an excellent job. They were also the ones who fired Lenny Bruce after his first joke. That was a famous incident. Redd was just not a good businessman. He was great onstage and that was it. </span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You wanted me to remind you about Phil Harris the next time we spoke...</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: Yes, I wanted to tell you that story about Phil Harris and Tony Martin. Phil Harris and Tony Martin were playing golf once and Phil Harris asked him, "Tony, do you know my wife, Alice?" He said, "Know her? Phil! I was <i>married to her</i>." This is true! Phil Harris didn't realize his own wife had been married to Tony Martin. That's such a wild thing. "Do I know her? I was married to her!"</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I had a situation with Tony Martin when I did <i>The Steve Allen Show</i>. I was sitting on the couch during commercial and Tony Martin spots this blonde sitting in the front row. He leans into me and says, "Hey, Jackie, check out that blonde. Boy, I'd like to fuck her!" I said, "Would you like to meet her?" He said, "Oh, you know her?" I said, "That's my wife."</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He goes, "Jackie, oh my God, I'm so sorry! Please, Jackie..." I said, "No, no, Tony, don't worry about it, it's a compliment." But Tony Martin, boy... I never could figure him out. He was a big star and every song he did in the 1940s was a hit. He was so handsome. But people barely know his name today.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: February 1958 you played the Henry Grady Hotel in Atlanta.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: Yes, the Henry Grady was a big hotel down there. That was with Marc Antone and we worked it twice as Antone and Curtiss. I had an experience there when I finished a show. This person invited me over for a drink. Down south it was nice people with a <i>horrible</i> attitude about what they called "colored people." They would use a vocabulary that was... very bad. I'm sitting there with this Southerner and he says, "I gotta tell ya boy, you do some great impressions. You know who does great impressions? You ever see that Sammy Davis Jr? Now <i>there</i> is a talented [N-word]." </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He didn't dislike Sammy Davis Jr., but this was how he talked. This was a hard thing for me to adjust to when we played the south because you would hear it all the time. While we were at the Henry Grady, we heard that Johnny Mathis got secretly engaged to a gay actor. They exchanged rings onstage at a nearby club, but nobody knew it.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: The name of the club at the Henry Grady was the Paradise and it was managed by a guy named Lark Bragg.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: Yeah, it was a hard job. You did two shows a night in the Paradise Room and then you had to do a matinee on Saturdays for women and kids. They did the same thing at the Brown Hotel in Louisville. If they booked you for a week, you also had to do an extra matinee for kids.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: That sounds terrible.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: It was easy for me because I did impressions and I performed in short pants. So it was kind of a funny thing for kids to see a grown man dressed like a little boy. Of course, I did specific material that would appeal to kids.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: That's would be a tough job for most of the comedians coming through there. I can't imagine Don Rickles or Jackie Vernon going over well in that situation.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: Yeah, it could be tough, but I always adjusted to those problems. It worked out. Since we were both singers, Marc and I, we could do children's songs so it wasn't too hard.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: <a href="https://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2014/11/hollywoods-first-comedy-club-by-kliph-nesteroff.html">You were featured in a show at the Jewish nightclub Billy Gray's Band Box</a>. You were in a show called Rocket to Laughter written by Sid Kuller and Snag Werris.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: Snag Werris! At Billy Gray's Band Box they would do a thing that Billy wrote himself and then a parody that Sid wrote and then a sketch that Snag wrote. Snag wrote for movies and everything. He introduced me to some directors at Paramount. It's funny you bring that name up. I haven't said his name in forty years. He was a wonderful, wonderful man. He looked like Santa Claus without a beard. He didn't write for me, but he'd come over after I did something and say, "You know, Jackie, that was a great idea you had, but you ought to add something here."</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Comedy writers were hanging around the Band Box all the time. May 1959 - you played the Shamrock Hilton in Houston.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: We followed Nelson Eddy in. Unbeknownst to us, whenever another act was coming into the Shamrock Hilton, they would have the performer billboard the upcoming acts. I didn't know this. I was just sitting in the audience watching the show and all of a sudden Nelson Eddy says, "Ladies and gentleman, in our audience tonight are two of the most fabulous gentleman whom you've certainly seen on <i>The Ed Sullivan Show</i>..." and he introduced us. We went backstage afterward and talked to him. He was very gracious.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: July 1959 - you were playing the Adolphus Hotel in Dallas.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: That was a very big job for Marc and I because of Tony Zoppi. He was a big writer at the Dallas Morning News. He had been the public relations man at the Riviera Hotel in Las Vegas. He gave us our biggest boost by writing how great we were in Dallas. Because of that the crowds kept coming in to see us. While we were at the Adolphus, our opening act was Teddy Randazzo.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He was a singer who wrote some good popular songs and had a little bit of a career. There was a room upstairs at the Adolphus called the King's Club. A lot of big comics worked there. After I split up with Bill Tracy I went back and worked there four or five times. The Adolphus was a big, huge room. It was also where Marc and I met Jack Ruby.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><br /></i>
<i>Kliph Nesteroff: He ran a nightclub in Dallas.</i></span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: Right, it was called the Carnival Club or something.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: The Carousel.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: The Carousel, yes, that was it. That was down the street from the Adolphus. Jack came in and asked us if we wanted to come by his club. We went over there two or three times to see the shows. </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He introduced us to all the strippers. </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He was a sweet guy. He bought us drinks. He thought we were funny. He said, "Boy, I'd sure love to use you guys, but I don't think you'd take your clothes off." I said, "You're right!" So, I met Jack Ruby.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: What was the Carousel like?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: The Carousel was quite a nice, little strip club. It was not funky like you might think. It was dark. Painted with black walls. Red drapes and things like that. But I gotta say, his strippers were <i>first class</i>. They were not scrungy in any way. They really put on a good show and a pretty <i>arousing</i> show. Candy Barr worked there. She came out of Dallas. There was another girl that to every beat of the music - could move a different part of her ass. I'm telling you, Kliph, it was incredible.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">The control! The strippers were all very nice. Two or three of them came to see our show and we didn't even recognize them. They came dressed to the nines, not the revealing outfits we saw them wearing down the street.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Did Jack Ruby use a comic to host the shows?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: Well, he may have, I don't know. When we were there he had different guys from the band hosting. The bandleader did the introductions and then this production singer, a typical sort of guy, would sing, "The pretty girl... there she is..." They would tell a couple of jokes, but they weren't actually funny people.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Not actual comics.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: No, the guy would just come out and do a bullshit line that some guy gave him.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: December 1959. You guys played the Elmwood in Windsor, Ontario.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: Yes, I we got that at the same time we booked a Sullivan show for that Sunday. We flew into New York in the middle of our run at the Elmwood. Detroit was right across the river from Windsor and I went over there to be interviewed on the radio by this guy Jack Harris. There was a young girl working in Detroit, maybe at the Cork Club or something like that. She came on Jack's show in the early sixties. Her name was Barbra Streisand.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Afterward she said, "Mr. Harris, you're so great. Would you like to manage me?" He said, "Well, I don't manage anybody." Barbra Streisand asked him to manage her! She took the transcript or a tape of the show and shopped it around to different managers. It was because of those recordings that she got her big break. It was from appearing on <i>The Jack Harris Show</i> with his band backing her up.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">It was the first time she'd done anything like that. So, she later becomes a big star. Jack was in New York and he called her manager. He said, "I'm Jack Harris. I once helped Barbra, she was on my show and..." They said, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're aware of you." And it was a cold, cold, brush-off. Jack figured, "Oh, well. Just one of those things." But then he got a call later with all these apologies.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">She had tickets for him to come see her show. Jack told me, "She had a bad reputation for being difficult, but I did help her and she truly never forgot it." He was instrumental in her early career without even meaning to be.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><br /></i>
<i>Kliph Nesteroff: He was on </i><i>Radio WJR in Detroit.</i></span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: WJR, yes, that was it. I gave Jack Harris a job when he couldn't get any work because of the whole Bing Crosby thing. Crosby kept him from working and no one would hire him. <i>60 Minutes</i> did a whole piece about it.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I gave him a job hosting this pilot I made in the 1970s called <i>Star Time Showcase</i>. I got a lot of big name comics that were friends of mine to introduce young comedians they had "discovered." I had Dave Madden, Marty Allen, Bill Dana, Scoey Mitchell, Shecky Greene, and Louis Nye. They introduced people they supposedly "discovered" but they actually had only just met them in the green room right before the taping.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: What was Scoey Mitchell's act like?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: Scoey was just another stand-up comedian, but he also produced a lot of shows. In fact, he hired me as a writer on a show for thirteen weeks. He was very good. I got a call from some guy named Powers, a disc jockey. They interviewed me on the air and one of the people he had in-studio was Scoey. You know what his act was like? He was sort of a Dick Gregory imitator. He was a pretty good stand-up. That's how he started out and then later went into acting.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You did a show in April 1962 on KCOP called Time It.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: Yes, it was a game show. The contestants had so many seconds to figure something out and give the answer. They'd show a picture and you had to guess who the person was and what they were doing. One of those type of shows. It was on for thirteen weeks. In those days you did all kinds of things. Anything to make a buck.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Curtiss and Tracy were supposed to... I don't know if this happened or not... but you were supposed to record for Bob Keene at Del-Fi Records.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: We were supposed to and we never did. We went to ERA Records instead. ERA was run by a guy who had a couple records in his drawer for years and then one day took them out and they became hits. He put out "Mule Skinner Blues" and the comic who did "Mister Custer," which was a big hit.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He was one of these hucksters around Vine Street that was around at the time, sort of a copycat guy. There were all sorts of small record labels and song pluggers and song writers near Vine Street and we all knew each other. That was one of my multiple careers. I was a singer and I did records and I had a million seller in 1959 called "Cecilia." I was just keeping busy, trying to survive.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: July 1959 you played Bimbo's 365 in San Francisco with the Marquis Chimps.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: Gene Detroy and the Marquis Chimps. It really was a great act. Jack Benny made them famous. He would always have them on. The chimps were great and he was great. We went into the 365 and they had the "Girl in the Fishbowl." I don't know if you know about that. It was a famous thing.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">They had this in their lobby - a fishbowl with a nude girl about four inches tall that swam around. Down below, out of sight, there was a velvet turntable and a nude girl would lay on it. They used one of these reverse lenses where if you look on one end everything is big and through the other end everything is tiny. It was a major draw for people to come to the club to see "The Girl in the Fishbowl." </span><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I had an affair with her. We'd turn out the lights and we'd make it right on that turntable. </span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Bimbo's 365 club still exists. </span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: When we worked it in the late 1950s they had an eighteen-piece band. The place sat around three hundred people and you got drinks from the giant bar that was right by the "Girl in the Fish Bowl." I have a picture somewhere of me with one of the chimps.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: <a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2011/12/interview-with-pete-barbutti-part-four.html">Pete Barbutti told me that the chimps didn't react well to anyone who had alcohol</a> on their breath. Barbutti said Garry Moore had a drinking problem at the time and when the monkeys came out they went crazy and tore the place apart.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: There's also a famous story about Ed Sullivan. Clyde Beatty was the famous animal trainer of the circus. I used to have a line about him in my act: "He has a brother - Clawed Badly." When they had an animal act on the Sullivan show, everything was precise. They had big trucks outside on the street with these caged gateways so they could bring the animals straight in and keep them away from the audience.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Clyde Beatty told Ed Sullivan during the day to make sure the band doesn't play anything differently than planned, so as not to upset the animals. That night they were running long and Sullivan cut Clyde Beatty off before he was finished. Two of the cats got away and walked into the audience! They kept it hush-hush. Ed learned not do that again. It could have been a catastrophe.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: March 1966 you played Caesar's Palace... not in Las Vegas... but a club called Caesar's Palace in Inglewood, California - with Jimmie Rodgers.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: Right. That was here in Los Angeles and I remember it vividly because our manager brought Duke Ellington in to meet us. That was the night I met the Duke. I sat down at his table and had a drink with him and he was the most gentle person in the world. We came over, sat down, he said, "I really like your act." I said, "Thank you, Mr. Ellington, your music..." He said, "No, please, let's not talk about what we do. Let's just enjoy our company." He was so nice and I remember it so well. That was about a month before Jimmie Rodgers got mauled by the police.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You played the Aladdin in Las Vegas with Rusty Warren in July 1968.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: It was more than that. It was also with Godfrey Cambridge, Nudes on Ice, and Little Richard. We came in toward the end of Rusty Warren's run. She had three days left and then she was gone. But we did it with Godfrey Cambridge. Nudes on Ice was really funny too. It was an ice show where nudes skated. And Little Richard was great.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You played a venue in Chicago called the Scotch Mist.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: The Scotch Mist was run by the Chicago hoods. It was Easter and the hoods put us in there. It was <i>devastating</i>. The doors were right behind the stage. While we were on, people were walking <i>through</i> our act to get to their tables. I remember saying, "I really don't want to be here." Marc said, "Where else would you want to be on Easter?" I said, "Oh, on a <i>cross</i>." Fortunately, everybody laughed.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">We did well except for one night. That night the local critic just happened to be there and he gave us the worst review. The hoods gave us a night off and took us down the street to go see Shecky Greene perform. We went to see Shecky and the guy at the next booth had his Luger pistol right on the table.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: When you say the hoods "put you in"to the venue... what exactly does that mean and how did that work?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Jackie Curtiss: We were in Chicago to play a date, but the club closed. These hoods were going to come see us perform and when the club went out of business they immediately called us and said, "Don't worry. We worked it out. You're working the Scotch Mist for two weeks. They'll pay you the money you would have made at the other place." But this was <i>not </i>a place for acts. No comedian could have survived there. But the Boys did help you out if they liked you.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2011/09/interview-with-jackie-curtiss-part-one.html">Return to Part One</a></span></b>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2398796842887862508.post-38687171953904933392020-06-25T23:15:00.001-07:002020-06-26T13:59:20.833-07:00An Interview with William Schallert - Part Three<div class="p4">
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You acted with Orson Welles in the Universal-International western Man in the Shadow. It was directed by Jack Arnold. I am slightly obsessed because I live in Jack Arnold's old house.</span></b></i></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1">William Schallert: Jack Arnold, yes. I loved working for Jack. He directed me in a number of things, including a pretty good picture called <i>The Incredible Shrinking Man</i>. It was v</span>ery good.</span></b></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: I understand that you were cut out of Singing In the Rain.</b></i></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Yeah, well, I didn’t have much to do in the first place. <a href="https://oldshowbiz.tumblr.com/tagged/Kathleen-Freeman">Kathleen Freeman and I were both cast in that film because we were working</a> at the Circle Theater. She had a real part and I had a nothing part. I played an assistant director who said, “Okay, back it up a little bit, will ya? Okay, hold it right there. Okay, that’s fine.” Something like that. They didn’t need it and I was cut out of <i>Singing in the Rain</i>.</b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: How about the film Hell’s Horizon with Chet Baker?<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></i></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Yeah, well, I loved his music. It was just great. I had the first record he did with Gerry Mulligan. </b></span><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">That’s where he did his famous version of My Funny Valentine. Near the end of the song he cracks on a note, but they kept it on the recording because it was such a wonderful version. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I found Chet Baker to be an interesting guy. He was very low key. I don’t know if he was already into the drug scene when I knew him, but he certainly fell into that later on. He went to Europe and worked a lot there. But the guy who directed us was a fellow named Tom Gries.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>And Tom was a very talented writer, director, and friend. We got to know each other because he was married to an actress who was at the Circle Theater with me named Mary Munday. </span></b></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: And the Circle Theater on El Centro Avenue in Hollywood - it's still there. </b></i></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Yes, that old building is still standing. Tom Gries used me in a couple of things including a picture called <i>Will Penny</i> with Charlton Heston. I played a doctor. I had one great line. I was patching up these guys who’d gotten injured in gunfights. My line was, “Dangerous children.” I remember that.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: You did a film with John Wayne. The High and the Mighty.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></i></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Yeah.</b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: What do you recall about working with John Wayne, Phil Harris, Pedro Gonzales Gonzales...</b></i></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1">William Schallert: I never saw <i>any</i> of those people. I worked in one scene with Regis Toomey.</span> He was a very well-known character actor. William Wellman directed it and he was a very well-known director. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I don’t know how I got cast in it. I think I read for it and Wellman thought I'd be good. When I saw it I thought, "Man I did a pretty good job." And it was a very small part, but it had a little substance to it. I don’t remember <i>why</i> I thought that I did a good job, but I did. It was a big blockbuster, but I didn’t work with any of the major stars. I was just another character actor.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: In 1954 you were in two different robot movies. One was called Tobor the Great. The other was called Gog. What do you remember about working with robots?</b></i></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1">William Schallert: Yeah, I’m in a four-sheet or a six-sheet, whatever they call it, when they put a big poster in the lobby of a movie theater.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> There's a sort of famous image where I'm</span></span> being strangled by a robot.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>And then <i>Tobor the Great</i>... my agent Leon Lance... one of his other clients was Charlie Wagenheim. He had been cast in <i>Tobor the Great</i>, but deliberately told them that he couldn’t make it. He suggested that maybe I would do it since we had the same agent.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>I played a newsman in that, but had practically nothing to do. Charlie Wagenheim steered that part to me and I’d like to keep his name alive because of that. He was a nice guy.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: <a href="https://oldshowbiz.tumblr.com/post/617483435085283328/march-1979-the-all-in-the-family-murders">He was later slain in the horrific All in the Family murders in the late 1970s</a>. </i></span><i>How about Black Tuesday with Edward G. Robinson?<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></i></span></b></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: <i>Black Tuesday</i>? I think Edmund O’Brien was associated with that.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: No, that's a different movie you did around the same time called Shield for Murder.</b></i></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Yeah, that’s it. Okay. Well, <i>Black Tuesday</i> I don’t remember. I don't recall working with Edward G. Robinson.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: The two films are similar. They’re both bleak “cop on the run” movies.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> Almost film noir.</span></b></i></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1">William Schallert:</span><span class="s1"> Yeah, that was the period when I was going through a bad patch. I was smart enough never to have joined the Communist Party, but when I was at UCLA there was a group called the Young Communist League. I had come from a very conservative, Republican, anti-labor household. My father worked for the Los Angeles Times as an influential columnist. He went to work there the year after the LA Times building was bombed by anarchists from the Workers of the World. The Wobblies.</span> </span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I found out later that they’d been railroaded. They had Clarence Darrow as their defender in court. He went to see them in jail and said after a half hour he knew they were guilty. He urged them to plead guilty and throw themselves on the mercy of the court, which is what they did. And then they got executed! I saw Henry Fonda do Darrow on the stage. That's where I learned that information. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I was doing a play with Jeff Corey at the beginning of 1951 and he was ducking subpoenas at the time and they finally caught him. </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">It was a nasty time. </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">And then, you know, he was an amazing guy because he went to work as a teacher. He taught acting to a large number of people in town and he was an inspiring, gentle, wonderful teacher. And he could have gotten crushed by the blacklist but, in fact, he came out of it okay. He just didn’t have the career he would have had otherwise. He lost ten years of his career.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">But otherwise, you know, he came back and was very well respected. There were a couple of other guys who got called to testify on the same day and they were crushed. One of them was named Chamberlain. I can’t remember, but he used to work at the Actor’s Lab. Charlie Chaplin had been involved with the Circle Theater where I got my start and he was kind of a red flag in front of a bull. They considered him a Communist sympathizer and he got treated very badly. They revoked his visa.</span></b></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>He went to Europe. His wife Una had to come back here to deal with their property. If she hadn’t been able to do that he would have lost it all.</b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: You say this was a dark period for you...</b></i></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Yeah, because I’d been at the Circle Theater with Chaplin and because of that, in 1952, I got called out to MGM to meet with Leo B. Mayer’s right hand man…</b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: Dore Schary.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></i></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: No, it was someone in the administrative end...</b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: Eddie Mannix.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></i></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: No, no, it was this guy L.K. Sidney. He was father to the director George Sidney. And L.K. Sidney was the labor relations guy at the studio. He called me in during the summer of 1952. He said, "Now you know the American Legion has got you on a list." </b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>The American Legion picked up on some list supplied by some West Coast version of HUAC. The something something committee. I signed a petition protesting it, which everyone was signing. It was published on the back page of the Hollywood Reporter. As a result of that I was listed as a "probable red." Actually, my father was accused of being a Communist sympathizer because in his column he spoke favorably of Judy whatshername. The wonderful, really great comedienne...<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: Judy Holiday.</b></i></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Yes, right, Judy Holiday. She had worked in New York with the Revuers and Leonard Bernstein wrote some of their music. I was told, "Well, you know you're listed here." I said, "Well, all I can tell you is I never joined the Communist Party. So, if that's any help..."</b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>He said, "There are a couple of things here. You belonged to the Arts, Sciences, and Professions Council." I said, "Well, yeah, I guess I signed up for that. I just thought it was a noble sounding organization and I was pleased that they wanted me." And there was something else at the Actor’s Lab that I had gotten involved with to help all the small theaters around Hollywood. The small theaters were going to join forces for a common prop store and costume place. When small theaters rented from Western Costume, it could get very expensive. So we were going to establish this inexpensive cooperative.</b></span><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">We called it the California Theater Council. Nothing ever came of it. But I signed my name to it. Anyway, I explained my involvement to this guy and he said, "Well, I guess that will have to do."<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>I said, "At least I didn’t belong to the party." I figured that was the end of it.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I had a Fulbright Fellowship. I went to England and when I got back I wasn't working at all. It was very tough. I ran into a guy, a French literary agent who later helped put together <i>Coming to America </i>with Eddie Murphy. I can’t remember his name right now, but I met him at a party. He said "Well, I understand that you’re a very good actor, so if you ever need any help - give me a call. I’d be happy to do something for you."</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i>The Egyptian</i> was being cast and they were looking for an unknown actor<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>to play the part of Akhenaten, the first monotheistic pharaoh in Egyptian history. I figured I’d win it, but they cast some guy whose name I can’t remember. He was a character actor in the same category that I was. Michael Curtiz was going to direct. I had worked for Mike Curtiz and he liked me. I called this agent and he said, "Well, why don’t you come see me?" He was on Wilshire Boulevard above what used to be the Brown Derby. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I remember sitting across from him in his office in the early afternoon. He got on the phone and called 20th Century Fox. He said, "I would like to suggest that you consider William Schallert for the part of Akhenaten. He’s a very interesting young actor - undiscovered. It’s exactly what you’re looking for." There was silence for thirty seconds and then he said, "Oh, really? Ah ha. Yes, I see. Okay. Well, all right, yes. Thank you." He hung up the phone and looked at me. He goes, "They say you're unemployable."</span></b><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wow.</b></i></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1">William Schallert: Now I’d never heard it said like that before. I’d heard of grey listing and things like that, but I guess this was because it was a major part. It </span>brought the house tumbling down on me. I thought, "My God, what is going to happen to me?" </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">My dad, to his credit, went out to 20th Century Fox. He had a talk with the head of publicity, Harry Brand. As I mentioned before, my father was a pretty influential columnist at the Los Angeles Times. He was quite famous in California. And here he was besmirched. It was tarring him because he’d said something nice about Judy Holiday.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>And they got to the managing editor or maybe the city editor and they said, "You know people have written in." I saw some of the mail they got. They accused my dad of being a "red" and "a commie" or "a commie sympathizer" and said his son was a "well-known commie." The Times told him, "Well, we <i>know</i> you're not like that, Edwin. We all know that you’re straight, but maybe it would be good not to mention Judy Holiday ever again." That was how the blacklist kept spreading. You know, I mean...and this is inside information - so to speak.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: So then - your reputation as the king of the bit parts... perhaps it came about because you were blacklisted from achieving bigger roles... </b></i></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1">William Schallert: I think... well, possibly. I’m not sure. I wouldn’t be surprised if that was it. Because I started in acting the same year as when the blacklist started. 1947 was my first year in film. And those early years were terrible. It was dangerous to have any associations that were considered off the chart in any way.</span> But I survived it, you know. Unlike those who were smashed.</span></b><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: Philip Loeb from the sitcom The Goldbergs was a famous case. He was blacklisted because he supported the integration of major league baseball in the 1940s. The New York sportswriter at the Daily Worker was Lester Rodney. He started something called the End Jim Crow in Baseball Campaign. Many prominent people who endorsed the integration of the major leagues were later blacklisted. Most historians agree that it was literally the Communist campaign... American Communists... that led to the integration of major league baseball... Of course, the Soviet Communists didn't know anything about American sports so Lester Rodney had an unusual amount of autonomy at the Daily Worker.</b></i></span><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1">William Schallert: Well, yes. That's all true and Phillip Loeb ended up committing suicide in the end. These were all well-known people. The blacklist could really murder a character actor. Some</span> never did recover. Jeff Corey eventually came back. He was in a John Frankenheimer picture called <i>Seconds </i>and that restored his reputation. Actually, several of the actors cast in that film - Will<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Gere, John Randolph, a whole group of blacklisted people, were rehabilitated by <i>Seconds</i>.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Will Gere had been active in the liberal theater out here. </span></b><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: <a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2011/08/interview-with-betsy-palmer.html">Betsy Palmer told me that when</a> they blacklisted Will Gere, they weren't sure which actor was which and so they blacklisted a whole group of actors with names like Will Hare or Bill Gear... people with no political affiliations. They just had a similar name...</b></i></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1">William Schallert: </span>Well, yes, that’s exactly the kind of nonsense that would happen. To end my hair-raising experience with this my father went to Harry Brand and said, "I don't think this is right." It took a lot of courage on my father's part. I’d always appreciated the fact that he’d done it. Plus - he was a big conservative and he was from the South. But he was being tarred with this brush.</span></b><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: 7165 Beverly Boulevard. You did a handful of things at this theater in the 1950s including a play called Quadrivium. I am interested in its history. It was the original Slapsy Maxie's. A real dump, hole in the wall nightclub. Then it turned into a proto-comedy club around 1945 called Cully Richards' Blackhawk. During your era it was called the Globe Theater and then the Hollywood Repertory Theatre. Then it turned into a movie house called the Capri, an art house called the Europa, and then a porn theater called Eros. Today it is the New Beverley Cinema - perhaps the best rep cinema in the world.</b></i></span><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1">William Schallert: That was a place where I directed some shows. </span>Dennis Weaver was running it and he ran a class. The Hollywood Repertory Theatre, yeah. I think Dennis had been at the Actor’s Studio and now he was trying to do his own little thing, sort of his own version of the Actor's Studio.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">My wife was in that class. They were going to put together an evening of one-act plays. I had run across a play by T.S. Elliot called <i>Sweeney Agonistes</i>. I had suggested that I direct it and I did. 7165 Beverly Boulevard, yeah. That was one of the very good, small little theaters here in town. </span></b><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>I read a blurb that said you were offered the chance to direct a film for Burt Lancaster’s company to be called Diary of a Madman.</b></i></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1">William Schallert: I don’t remember it.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>I must have turned it down.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>When I was president of the Screen Actor's Guild, I had the occasion to meet Burt Lancaster. But that was long after.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: I heard that you appeared on Johnny Carson’s first CBS television show.</b></i></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1">William Schallert: I did. T</span>hey were doing a send up of <i>What’s My Line?</i> and I bore some vague resemblance to John Charles Daly who was the host of that show. </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1">I don’t remember much about it beyond that. We had jokes, but I don’t recall the details.</span> I got cast because they knew I could be funny and had a passing resemblance to John Daly.</span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I had one other experience with Johnny Carson.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>I got elected to the Motion Picture Academy’s Board of Governors quite unexpectedly. It’s a very small cadre of people who elect those people. You have to be nominated first. And there’s a huge pool of actors, a few thousand anyway.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>And so somebody has to pick you out from among thousands and nominate you. And then after that you have to be sure you can get enough votes. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">To this day I don't know, but it must have been some friends at the Guild. I was kind of "electable" in the mid-1970s. Somebody must have... I always imagine it must have been Kathleen Nolan. She must have got some people together and had them do it. She thought I should be president of the Screen Actor's Guild. That it would be good for the union if I were. I mean, I don’t actually know if that’s what happened, but that’s how it worked out. I think I beat Richard Dreyfuss. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Anyway, because of that we always attended the Academy Awards. One time we were sitting down in the orchestra seats and Johnny Carson had some time to kill onstage. He saw me and said, "Hey, Bill!" He recognized me. He obviously knew who I was.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Anyway, it was nice to have him point me out on an Oscar telecast.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: In 1954 you tested for a Marlon Brando film called </i></span><span class="s2"><i>Désirée.</i></span></span></b></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: I met Marlon Brando at a party. Sydney Chaplin was going out with somebody. I can't remember who it was now. They had kind of a hot fling going. And he was the one who told me about this party. I had just started doing a little folk singing. I thought, "Oh, I'll play some guitar at the party." But I wasn't very good. Ha.</b></span><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: medium;"><span class="s1" style="font-size: large;">For some reason I thought I could sing. Anyway, we went to the party and at one point I left the room to go find the guitar and when I came back upstairs, Brando was there. </span><span style="font-size: large;">Brando made a request, asked if I could sing some sort of a children’s folk song. I didn't know it. We didn'</span><span class="Apple-converted-space" style="font-size: large;">t become friends.</span><span style="font-size: large;"> George Englund was there with his wife Cloris Leachman. Sydney Chaplin encouraged me to go ahead and sing. And at the time I really thought I was good. In retrospect, I was completely delusional. Oh, God. </span></span><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: xx-small;"><br /></span></b><br />
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Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2398796842887862508.post-83695093298819222482020-06-24T14:10:00.000-07:002020-06-24T17:31:25.511-07:00An Interview with Saul Illson - Part Two<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Illson: Sammy Davis Jr. got standing ovations because he overwhelmed you. He came out and just took over. He did everything and the audience was just overwhelmed. But actually, Sammy wasn't very warm. And he spoke in the editorial "we."</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He would always come in with his entourage. Jimmy Durante and Bing Crosby, those guys <i>never</i> had entourages. They showed up alone and did their stuff. I wrote for all of them after I joined <i>The Hollywood Palace </i>during its second season. The Rolling Stones were on the show and Dean Martin was the host. During the intermission he said to me, "You're not going to leave me alone with these guys...."</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Let's talk about your time on The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour. You produced the first two seasons. Most people talk about its controversial third season. You left between the second and third seasons. </span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Illson: Yeah, that's when it really got out of hand. I did the first two years. They did a documentary on the Smothers and for some reason they never mentioned myself or Ernie Chambers. They talked about all the controversy in the third year, but they showed clips from <i>our </i>seasons. When we did the first two years we had some control over Tommy.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">If you looked at their act - there was no social satire. None. We went to New York and the president of the network said, "I don't think it's going to work. We've never had a show with two hosts." And then Lyndon Johnson was going crazy and we were getting letters from the bible belt saying, "This show will not go unpunished by God."</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">When we did the show we never expected to be on the show for more than thirteen weeks because nobody - <i>nobody</i> - could beat <i>Bonanza</i> or even get close to it. They got killed in the ratings. I remember Tommy saying to me that he also wanted to talk about things that were real in the world, but he wanted to do them seriously. We used to do editorials on the show. He wrote the first editorial, but it didn't <i>belong</i> on the show. I said, "It's not funny. You're not a spokesperson. If we're going to do them, then do them with satire."</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">So we took the piece and gave it to Hal Goldman and Al Gordon. They were Jack Benny writers. They wrote the piece and shot it with Tommy and it didn't work. So we said, "Let Pat Paulsen take a crack at it." And <i>that </i>was hysterical. Exact same piece of material, but suddenly it was funny with Pat doing that dead pan delivery. And that's how the editorials started on the show. We started doing satirical material.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">The first piece we did on the show was "McNamara's Band." We had Tommy stop the number and say to Dickie, "I don't want to sing this anymore. There's not one Jewish guy in the band! All Irish people." "Because it's MacNamara's Band!" "There's no Italians, no Blacks, I don't want to do it." So we wrote MacNamara's Jewish Band and that was the beginning of doing little satires on the show.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">As it went on, the big problems were with the CBS news department. They didn't want us to do any social satire. We would do things about President Johnson and whatever else was going on. That was the beginning of the trouble and then we started having fights with the network. One of the famous pieces was Nichols and May talking about breasts and that got censored.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">We used to put things in the script we knew they would censor so that we could trade off. "Okay, we'll take that out, but we want to keep this." We would fight about really silly things. We had Jim Backus on the show and Margaret O'Brien. She played Lucy Bird. The sketch was about the president becoming outraged after he learns the Russians are ten years ahead of us in barbecue sauce. Little did we know that the children of the president loved our show and watched it every week.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">When the president and first lady came home they told them about the piece and how we made fun of him. A couple days later I get a call at five in the morning from the vice president of programming, Mike Dann. Mike was screeching so loud only dogs could hear what he was saying. Lyndon Johnson woke up Bill Paley at two in the morning and said, "Get those sons of bitches off my back." He was furious with Paley.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: As Tommy became more righteous, did it become more difficult to work there?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Illson: Very much so. The one thing Paley said, "I need a special favor from you guys. I don't appreciate being woken up and screamed at by the President of the United States. Could you lay off of him? If you could do that, it would be healthy for all of us."</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Tommy wanted to get into more and more details about the War and we were able to do <i>some</i> pieces. Tommy always went around and said the only reason he did the show was because he got creative control - which is not true. Tommy did not have creative control. They had just come off of a failed sitcom and CBS was not about to give Tommy Smothers creative control. He thought he did have it and there were so many incidents that went on.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Did he believe he had it, but he didn't? He has said the only reason he accepted the variety show was because he got creative control.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Illson: That's not true! Absolutely not true. I was there. Not true. He was never given... CBS didn't give <i>anybody</i> that. They didn't even give that to Gleason! They're going to give it to Tommy Smothers? A guy who has never had a variety show and only a failed situation comedy? No. Not a chance.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: What do you remember about the house cleaning between the second and third season?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Illson: Well, we decided we had enough. We certainly built a reputation for the show. Then in the third year Tommy Smothers took control. Not from the network, but of the show and he became the editor. We had tremendous battles and sometimes we'd win, sometimes we'd lose. The show was making money. As long as it was making money we were fine.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Bob Wood was by then vice president and the ratings started to drop. You know, when they did that documentary you will notice they had not one writer from the first two seasons. Yet, all the controversy was within the first two years and then after that it wasn't [political] controversy, but tasteless [sexual] pieces. It became sophomoric. The show changed. We did a much classier show. We still got a lot of controversy and Tommy still got away with a lot of things, but at least we were the editors. Ernie [Chambers] and I would pick and choose with Tommy what to do and the show had a point of view.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">The irony of these guys becoming the spokesperson of the controversy. There was no controversy! The third year was just a lot of stupid things that didn't belong on the air. At one point I was vice president of comedy, variety, and late night over at NBC. I know the workings and why things are done in most cases. Bob Wood had had enough. I got a call from Bob Wood and he told me to get a show ready. We put on <i>The Leslie Uggams Show</i>. It was maybe the first Black variety series. I remember we had Sly and the Family Stone perform when they were still brand new.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br />Kliph Nesteroff: Changing the subject for a moment. You and Ernest Chambers created a program that looked like it was going to be a new version of That Was the Week That Was. It was to be the first political satire on ABC, but my understanding is that it was neutered before it had the chance.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Illson: Exactly. That's true. It was called <i>What's It All About, World?</i> And you're right, it was supposed to be like <i>That Was the Week That Was</i>. We were able to do some pretty good stuff on the show, but the edict came down from Leonard Goldenson that he was getting complaints. We offended the right wing because we talked about the War and we did some things about the Democrats, mostly Bobby Kennedy, and we heard that Ethel Kennedy was very upset about it. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I forget what it was. Program Practices came down hard on us and the show became an ordinary show. We weren't very proud of what we ended up doing and it faded after one season. It started pretty good and left with a whimper. That was the end of that show.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: I saw some clips and it's just Tony Randall singing show tunes. </span></b></i><br />
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b></i>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Illson: Yeah.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Was there a difference between Program Practices at CBS and Program Practices at ABC?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Illson: No. The only difference was that at ABC they were waiting for us. We had meetings where they said they would be willing to work with us, but they had to have the final say. We had this reputation because of the Smothers Brothers. At the same time <a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2015/04/an-interview-with-george-schlatter.html">George Schlatter was doing <i>Laugh-In.</i> Talk about monumental hits. But even Schlatter</a> said that if the Smothers weren't on the air first, he wouldn't have been able to get away with his show. George was smart. Hit and run. He'd have a joke in there to aggravate the South and then just keep going. By the time you were offended they were onto something else.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: George eventually quit Laugh-In because of the head writer Paul Keyes.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Illson: <a href="https://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2010/09/richard-nixons-laugh-in.html">I knew him, yes. Paul was Richard Nixon's friend</a>.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: That is surprising to people that don't know. Laugh-In appears to be the voice of the youth culture <a href="https://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2010/09/richard-nixons-laugh-in.html">and then Nixon's close friend is the headwriter</a>.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Illson: Yeah, Paul got Nixon to come on and do 'Sock it to me.' It's hard to imagine, but when you're looking at a writing staff - it took a lot of writers. Not every writer - but most - leaned to the liberal side.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You worked for Bobby Darin during the time of his transition from the tuxedo guy to the jeans and beard kind of guy.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Illson: We had a love-hate relationship. I loved him because he was so talented. He was the full package. He could do everything. He could sing, dance, tell jokes, he was funny, he was an actor. He wanted to do a little spot on the show where he had a chess match with some great chess masters. We said, "Bobby, you can't stop a show and start playing chess." He insisted and we had a lot of problems with the network about it. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">We allowed him to do it for a couple shows, I'm not sure if they ever made it on the air. Bobby was living at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel and on the way to work I would pick him up in the morning. One morning I was waiting and waiting. Finally he gets in the car and says, "Sorry, I'm late. Every day it gets harder and harder to be Bobby Darin." </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Bobby was very, very sick. He died not long after the second season of the show. He was very rude or mean to people. He did a thing to a director. A prominent director came up to him in the rehearsal hall and said, "Sir, I want to tell you how proud I am to be working on your show." Bobby Darin looked at him and said, "One thing I can't stand is a kiss ass," and walked away. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Well, I happened to walk by and said, "Into your dressing room! Come on. Let's go." He sat behind the desk and I swore I would kill him. "I will put a fork in your throat! How dare you talk to people that way! How dare you!" He didn't say a word and I just let him have it and I left. Five minutes later he came back out and he was like a five year old. "Can we do the show now? Please?" I was shocked because I didn't think I had reached him. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">There was a part of him that was mean. But it's like Sinatra - you forgive them because they're so good on the show. Now, on the last show of the season he was doing a thing with Peggy Lee. He didn't want to rehearse. So we decided we would do a concert show. We were at Peggy Lee's house and he <i>turned</i> on her. I said, "Bobby, this is Peggy Lee! What are you doing? Apologize." And he <i>did</i> apologize.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Now on the day of the show he was ill. He stayed in his dressing room and rest and I would only bring him out when we really, really needed him. Something happened. He got mad at the sound man just before a number. He took the microphone and threw it at the crew said he wouldn't do it and that was the end of the season. I was in New York six months later watching television and they announced Bobby had passed away. I heard he had stopped taking his medication.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You produced the Billy Crystal Comedy Hour when Crystal was just coming. He was being handled by the powerful Rollins-Joffe agency.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Illson: Billy is special. Billy - what you see is what you get. We had great guests. Robin Williams was on the show. One episode we had Tony Curtis and he was going to play Moses. I forget what the bit was. We were doing a dress rehearsal with Tony fully made-up as Moses. I said, "Tony, this is not a movie. We're featuring Tony as Moses. It's not an acting job, it's a personality job, so I need you to get rid of most of this make-up." He said, "This is how I get into the mood of Moses!" I couldn't talk him out of it.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Was the show a success?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Illson: Yes. It ended because Billy didn't want to do it anymore. I was with the network and I wanted to make a deal with Billy to do maybe four specials a year. He didn't want to do the grind because he did shows in full make-up when he did Sammy Davis Jr. and whoever else. It took hours and hours to tape. I was vice-president of variety programs and then later Brandon Tartikoff and Fred Silverman asked me to become vice-president of comedy development. I was in charge of NBC late night during the 1982-1983 season.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Late Night with David Letterman was being developed.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Illson: That's right. </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I met Letterman at the Comedy Store. </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I met him in 1980-81. </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">We developed the daytime show first. David's writer-producer was Merrill Markoe. </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I was involved with it, b</span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">ut David is not a daytime television performer and the show was not a good fit for that time slot. It's all in the marketing. Letterman was not Mike Douglas. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He was more like Steve Allen, so the show failed. We had a meeting. I told him we wanted to keep him with the network. He knew it was in the wrong neighborhood. He came back eventually and worked in late night where he belonged all along. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He was very quiet. He was very serious, very concerned about his show. You can't do in the afternoon what you can in late night. I think he had mixed emotions about losing the shows. Very interesting show, but the wrong place. You don't sell Tiffany's in a ninety-nine cent store.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-size: large;"> </span><i><a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2020/06/an-interview-with-saul-illson-part-one.html">Return to Part One</a></i></span></b><br />
<br />Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2398796842887862508.post-56324898371155134672020-06-22T22:36:00.000-07:002020-06-23T19:24:08.664-07:00An Interview with Sam Bobrick - Part Two<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: September 1968 - you started writing for the Kraft Music Hall specials. The first one starred Alan King with guests Don Rickles and Sugar Ray Robinson.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: They hired us for the summertime and they liked us so much that they kept us. We took over the winter show for a year. They wanted to come back but the show was in New York and we were living in California, so it was too hard. Dwight Hemion and Gary Smith were the producers. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Very, very nice guys. Dwight Hemion was probably one of the best directors I have ever worked with on television. We did a summer show for them too - the Don Ho show. It was a vacation in Hawaii. I spent six weeks in Hawaii.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Danny Simon was also on staff...</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: Danny was the greatest first draft man. He would write a first draft that was <i>great</i>. But he would doubt himself. He would keep rewriting it. He was working on a play. It was called the <i>Shadow Only Knows</i>. It was about two brothers and one lives in the shadow of the other. It was about him and Doc! He rewrote it so much it eventually became <i>The Convertible Girl </i>and it ended up being about a gentile girl who converts to Judaism!</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: (laughs)</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: How did he get from there to here? Well, he always doubted himself! But he was a wonderful writer. He would work with Marty Ragaway and they were always bickering. But as soon as we heard his typewriter stop we would run in and grab the pages. We knew were going to be great. We were all in New York.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: One of the guests on one of those Alan King Kraft specials was Buddy Hackett.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: He and Alan were friends. You hear terrible stories about him being a very difficult man, but the funniest man. Buddy Hackett was very sensitive. You never knew what he was thinking, but he was always thinking something. We knew he had the temperament and Alan had no temperament at all. Alan King was really a prince to work with. He'd work with the writers, roll up his sleeves and sit there and pound out the show.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">We did a show, Ron and I were the producers and writers. We did a sketch where Buddy and Alan, friends in life, how they were when they were children. There was a little kid to play Alan and a really fat kid to play Buddy. That made Buddy mad. He came up to me. He said, "Who's that fat kid!" I knew there was trouble. I said, "What fat kid?" He said, "You don't see a fat kid?" I said, "No." He said, "Oh. Okay." And that was that. He didn't want a fat kid playing him.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Most comics are very, very tortured and they're just a strange group. They are so conflicted and so jealous and so many things, "Why him! Why not me?" I found it very difficult being around comics, especially the ones that didn't make it or couldn't make it or were on the periphery. They were tortured, so tortured. Buddy Hackett was a very tortured man.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You wrote Norman Is That You? It has gone down in history as having the most bizarre second life of any Broadway production...</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: Broadway hated us because we were television writers. There was a snobbery in New York. It's still very cliquish. They tore us apart. We thought we had the biggest hit going. The audiences were roaring - <i>roaring</i>. And opening night we got killed by everyone. They accused us of writing a television show.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Two things happened. It was the first comedy about homosexuals. The premise is a father from Cleveland comes to New York and discovers his son is gay. The son takes off and the father is stuck with the other gay guy. Today it would be politically incorrect, but at the time it was a funny, funny show. The critics were upset that it was a serious subject and they thought it should be treated seriously. Coming from California, you don't treat it seriously.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">It was based on people we knew. The next day the reviews were in the paper and they killed us. There was a story about an axe murderer on the front page. A guy hit a woman in the head with an axe and threw her down a shaft. And then I read our reviews. I thought, "My God, they were nicer to the axe murderer than they were to us." You would have thought we had done the worst thing in the world. You needed the papers in order for a show to succeed in those days. We had a novice producer and he just left us in the lurch. We ended the show. I think it played a week.</span></b><br />
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<i>Kliph Nesteroff: Twelve shows.</i></span></b><br />
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Sam Bobrick: The rights reverted back to us.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Despite it closing after twelve shows, George Schlatter bought the film rights immediately.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: Yeah, he read the play on an airplane and he bought the film rights. I think Billy Wilder offered us money and when the reviews came out he withdrew it. George read it and bought it. There was a French producer, Arthur something. His wife was going shopping and he didn't want to go along so he went to our play. We closed on Saturday night and he saw it Saturday afternoon. He saw the show and said, "I want this for a movie." Then he found out the rights were sold, so he said, "Well, then I want it as a play in Paris." He put it on in Paris and it ran five years! Then it played all over Europe and about forty different countries. It became a big, big hit.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: What did you think of the George Schlatter film?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: I hated it. Did you ever see it?</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><br /></i>
<i>Kliph Nesteroff: I did.</i></span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: Oh my God. We wrote a script - we wrote one script and I guess they rewrote it. I remember when I went to see it at the MGM. I said, "Where did the <i>puppets</i> come from!?"</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Wayland Flowers and Madame.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: And then at the end... it had an ending where the guy becomes straight! I said, 'Oh, shit.' I never watched it again. That movie came out and then I was involved with another disaster called the <i>Last Remake of Beau Geste</i>. Marty Feldman had trouble trying to work out the story. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He was handled by George Shapiro so I worked with him to work out the story. I didn't do the movie with him. He did it with a friend and he was going to direct it. My mother was in town and I got her tickets for a preview screening. I arranged for my mother to go see the <i>Last Remake of Beau Geste</i>. Now she had already seen the movie of <i>Norman Is That You</i> and never said anything about it. So she came home and I said, "Hi mom, how was it?" She said, "You know, son, maybe movies aren't for you."</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I thought that was funny. The movies were rough. I did another one with Gary Coleman and they shot a new ending for it and it looked totally different. People had completely different hairstyles. I was no longer involved with it, but you know, it was just terrible. My movie experiences weren't so terrific, but I liked writing them.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Did you work with George Schlatter?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: We did, but then the project laid around for seven years. We were hoping it would revert back to us. He did it on videotape or something - they didn't use film. It was a cheap kind of thing. I was working on another show at the time, so I couldn't get involved with it. It was just a disaster, I thought. I hated it.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You worked on the Tim Conway Comedy Hour with Ron Clark, Rudy DeLuca....</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: Rudy Deluca, Barry Levinson and Craig Nelson. They were writers. They were working on a local station. We read some of their material and it was wonderful. We gave them a name. We called them the Third Bananas. They were wonderful. Barry became a famous director and Craig became a famous actor. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">There were only thirteen episodes, but we really had fun doing it. We were doing outrageous sketches. We were doing the kind of sketches on that show that they eventually did on S<i>aturday Night Live</i>. Crazy sketches. </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Tim played Hitler as a football coach and the costume he wore was Charlie Chaplin's from the <i>Great Dictator</i>. He was the exact size as Charlie Chaplin. We did a sketch with m</span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">ountain climbers trying to climb a floor. Just outrageous things. CBS wasn't prepared for it and we followed another variety show starring Jim Nabors. We didn't have much of an audience. I know we had a lot of young kids watching it and Tim was wonderful to work with. DeLuca and Levinson would write sketches and were brilliant, brilliant guys.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Every show Conway had got canceled quickly and eventually he had vanity license plates that said Thirteen Weeks.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: Thirteen Weeks, yeah. Then he did another one about a detective. Ron produced that one. I was in New York rewriting the musical <i>The Wiz</i>, so I didn't do that one. Tim was so talented. He could fall <i>up</i> a flight of stairs.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: April 1970 you wrote The Bob Goulet Show starring Robert Goulet. Bob Hope was a guest.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: Yes, he was. I forgot I even wrote that show. Bob Hope only sang a song. The deal was he didn't want money, but he would do it if Goulet did three appearances on his show. Three for one. The sad thing was Hope was on our show and he was wonderful, but he never ended up hiring Goulet. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">We went to Goulet's house and he was so nice. I think Hope sang a song from <i>Camelot</i> and he was really terrific and he wouldn't go home. After the show he just wanted to hang around. Norman Rosemont was the producer. He was Bob Goulet's manager. Marty Passetta directed. He was from the Smothers Brothers show.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You created a sitcom called Love and Cement.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: Oh gosh, we never sold it. It was a tenement situation comedy. A guy living in Brooklyn or something. We did a pilot for Paul Lynde. We had to spend some time with him. People loved him from <i>Hollywood Squares</i>. We would go to lunch and people would follow us out like the Pied Piper. They just loved him, but we didn't want to stay with the show. We just did the pilot and left.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Paul Lynde played gay without being out - and the premise was that he was the head of a family with wife and kids.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: Yeah, well, those days you couldn't do anything. We tried to sell a pilot about a divorced couple and they said no. You had a lot of restrictions whereas now there are none. It's easier to write now because you can say and do anything, but we couldn't do this, couldn't do that. You couldn't show bellybuttons. On the show <i>I Dream of Jeannie</i> they had to cover up her bellybutton.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: How about Pat Paulsen...</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: He was a very unassuming and very grateful guy. I knew him and his wife. Pat didn't know how funny he was. He was doing a play of mine once and called me up. It was opening the next night. He said, "Is it funny, Sam? Is it funny?" I said, "No, Pat, it's a drama." He believed me. But when he went on the laughs were tremendous and he called me back and he was <i>mad </i>with me<i> </i>(laughs). </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">But he was a good friend. Toward the end it was difficult for him and I would write things for him to help. His manager was one of my best friends - Neil Rosen. He was a writer as well. He had a summer theater and Neil had me direct some plays featuring Paulsen up there. We got to know each other even more so than when we were on the Smothers Brothers. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He thought funny. Sometimes you're amazed by who is funny and who is not funny. Pat was just funny without knowing he was funny. He did the Ice House and I would go to see him. He was good, he was always good. I think the Smothers met him at the Ice House. Tommy and Dickie - I remember seeing them at the Hollywood Bowl and they were so funny. They were so talented. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Tommy was kind of in charge of the team. Dickie just enjoyed his life with his race cars. Tommy was the older one, I guess. He took care of it. They were just a great, great team when they were young. I didn't keep up with them when they were older. God, this is fun, Kliph. I'm amazed with what is coming back to me. </span></b><br />
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<a href="https://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2018/09/an-interview-with-sam-bobrick-part-one.html"><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Go Back to Part One with Sam Bobrick</span></b></a>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2398796842887862508.post-55515341554629040182020-06-15T22:27:00.003-07:002020-06-15T22:48:36.345-07:00An Interview with Saul Illson - Part One<span style="font-size: large;"><span id="goog_466916116"></span><span id="goog_466916117"></span><br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiNLHTuiQuWfpNzvZ5pdA2rz3nbYl8RoVwgkj7Bt7Cv_AMzqzLsMbLJtvRh62pRG0ntNTm1e2r-8RQderD_fOhQ8UjwTSgpFVizaLWneCBQ_jtfEZY36Cb5eLz5hq2WKnfMimVmHU325tY/s1484/Screen+Shot+2020-06-11+at+11.51.38+PM.png" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em; text-align: center;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1124" data-original-width="1484" height="303" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiNLHTuiQuWfpNzvZ5pdA2rz3nbYl8RoVwgkj7Bt7Cv_AMzqzLsMbLJtvRh62pRG0ntNTm1e2r-8RQderD_fOhQ8UjwTSgpFVizaLWneCBQ_jtfEZY36Cb5eLz5hq2WKnfMimVmHU325tY/w400-h303/Screen+Shot+2020-06-11+at+11.51.38+PM.png" width="400" /></a><br /><br /><b><span style="font-family: "times";"><i>
Kliph Nesteroff: You wrote for every star from Bing Crosby to Jack Benny, Dean Martin to the Smothers Brothers, but your earliest credits were at CBC Television in Canada.</i><br />
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Saul Illson: Yes, I started at the CBC. There was a singer by the name of Denny Vaughn. He was an entertainer. Denny was basically responsible for getting my foot in the door as a writer in Toronto. </span></b></span><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times"; font-size: large;">I was twenty years old. I wrote a song called "Haunting Love," which was recorded by Margaret Whiting at Capitol. It wasn't a big success, but it was making a little noise - especially in Canada. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times"; font-size: large;">I was on a late night interview show called Jimmy Tapp. Denny happened to be on the show promoting his new season on CBC. I think that was 1954. I was there and I don't remember what I said, but they performed my song. </span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times"; font-size: large;">Afterward Denny said, "Gee, I really like that number a lot. You have anything else? What have you done? Who are you?" We started to talk and he said, "Come and meet me tomorrow at the Windsor Hotel in Montreal." I went down and I spoke to him. I sang for him and told him about an idea I had for a musical. After an hour he said, "I think you should come down to Toronto. I'll introduce you to some people." </span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times"; font-size: large;">And he did. He introduced me to a producer-director by the name of Norman Campbell. I went through the same thing with him. I sang for him. Two hours later he introduced me to the guy who was going to star in the show. "I'd like you to meet Robert Goulet." That's how my career began.</span></b></div>
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Kliph Nesteroff: You said the televsion host was named Jimmy Tapp?</i><br />
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Saul Illson: Jimmy Tapp in Montreal.<br />
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Kliph Nesteroff: Any relation to Gordie Tapp?</i><br />
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Saul Illson: No. I knew Gordie, of course. He was the host of <i>Country Hoedown </i>on CBC in Toronto. No, he wasn't related to Jimmy Tapp at all. </span></b></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: large;"><b><span style="font-family: "times";">Of course, when you worked at CBC Toronto it was a company town. Everybody knew everybody and went to the same commissary. Whether it was Johnny Wayne and Frank Shuster or whoever.</span></b><br /><br />
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Saul Illson: Yes. Wayne and Shuster. I knew them like everybody else. When I talked about my musicals in the very beginning, Johnny Wayne started making suggestions, "Why don't you do this? I think if you make that character do this and so and so..." Frank Shuster looked at me and said, "<i>Don't</i> listen to him."</span></b><br /><br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjFZW7KPWEh_OeKweZ_xAq4nws_1mV1q6Xvfwu2dRa08n2KjCclXBMfBjxHyzA29hP-uLl1A_MS7LKr4drybGIe4ptGl7XC6Tta6u6gjqdT7jdER-5NYzhVO0jeBR5kvELeHonnxF2o0Qg/s2006/Screen+Shot+2020-06-15+at+8.54.12+PM.png" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em; text-align: center;"><img border="0" data-original-height="816" data-original-width="2006" height="130" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjFZW7KPWEh_OeKweZ_xAq4nws_1mV1q6Xvfwu2dRa08n2KjCclXBMfBjxHyzA29hP-uLl1A_MS7LKr4drybGIe4ptGl7XC6Tta6u6gjqdT7jdER-5NYzhVO0jeBR5kvELeHonnxF2o0Qg/w400-h163/Screen+Shot+2020-06-15+at+8.54.12+PM.png" width="320" /></a><br /><b><span style="font-family: "times";"><br /><i>Kliph Nesteroff: It was like there was a law that they were the only comedians allowed in Canada. They were known for having knockdown arguments. The new generation felt they had worn out their welcome on Canadian television.</i><br />
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Saul Illson: I don't know anything about that, but the deal they made with Ed Sullivan in the States was that Sullivan could not edit their material. If you had six minutes Ed Sullivan would make you cut two minutes right before the show. But he wasn't allowed to do that to Wayne and Shuster. That was their deal. </span></b><br /><br /><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgMYQWtem7PZuo51nm5B1A2F3I3xHHt0wPLUv6eGVJJl3G48A3dkWY_a4ZsqUQDaIyVydpDaIXllnvOCzFofrFZ2O6YIGK6mMP_Kp_9S8LHfPTKMriKr_EMuxqQoTmBX62Cbio-nVTGE18/s992/Screen+Shot+2020-06-15+at+9.02.24+PM.png" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em; text-align: center;"><img border="0" data-original-height="736" data-original-width="992" height="296" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgMYQWtem7PZuo51nm5B1A2F3I3xHHt0wPLUv6eGVJJl3G48A3dkWY_a4ZsqUQDaIyVydpDaIXllnvOCzFofrFZ2O6YIGK6mMP_Kp_9S8LHfPTKMriKr_EMuxqQoTmBX62Cbio-nVTGE18/w400-h296/Screen+Shot+2020-06-15+at+9.02.24+PM.png" width="400" /></a><br /><br /><b><span style="font-family: "times";">Some of their sketches ran for <i>ten minutes</i>! They were good. I never sat in a writing room with them. When I was doing a show called <i>Parade</i> they came on and did the show. But their's was a class act, writing wise. </span></b></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times"; font-size: large;">I started doing a series in Canada called <i>Showtime. </i>There was an agent from the William Morris agency who would come up to Toronto and sign a lot of talent. He signed a comedy writing team by the name of Frank Peppiat and John Aylesworth. He asked me if I would be interested in having him represent me. So I signed with him. </span></b></div>
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<span style="font-family: "times"; font-size: large;"><b>My first show was with producer Nick Vanoff and it was a show with all the little monsters: Paul Anka, Frankie Avalon, Fabian, and Bobby Darin. It was hosted by Pat Boone. Paul Anka was maybe sixteen. Nick Vanoff was talking to his manager Irving Feld. He had produced circuses at Madison Square Garden. He told Paul to come in tomorrow at ten o'clock so we can go over the music with the band. Irving Feld says, "I'll have him here." In the background you hear, "Like <i>fuck</i> you will." That was Paul Anka.</b></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times"; font-size: large;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: You did a Pat Boone show that was directed by another former CBC Television guy - Norman Jewison.</i><br />
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Saul Illson: Yes, that was later. I did about four Pat Boone shows. My first comedy show was with Danny Kaye.<br />
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Kliph Nesteroff: The writers room was quite impressive on The Danny Kaye Show.</i><br />
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Saul Illson: Unbelievable. Larry Gelbart. Mel Tolkin. Herbie Baker, who had written a lot of special material for Danny. Sheldon Keller. That's where I met my writing partner Ernie Chambers. I wrote a piece for Danny and went into his dressing room which was an actual home built on top of CBS Television City at his insistence. </span></b></div>
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<span style="font-size: large;"><b><span style="font-family: "times";">They literally built a bungalow for Danny Kaye on the roof of CBS. He was a cook, so they built him a kitchen. Of course it caused tremendous problems with Judy Garland and Red Skelton, which is another story. But I gave my material to Danny and he went over it. He said, "This is a good piece, I like it, and I want to do it."</span></b><br /><br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhts2dCuXAlJGOqS1UkDCW0QVec2n9i5_9KePVAWoN6AjH5ysgsAEI5qzOd8RlR4kHBP2CTqXOOKUsFAxf-_X5onEmFf5BPnhKkihECCiGYjmsJqWZwxIOyBB6At_7_Ont3VqcC2EIP_vs/s1258/Screen+Shot+2020-06-15+at+9.11.03+PM.png" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em; text-align: center;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1258" data-original-width="998" height="400" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhts2dCuXAlJGOqS1UkDCW0QVec2n9i5_9KePVAWoN6AjH5ysgsAEI5qzOd8RlR4kHBP2CTqXOOKUsFAxf-_X5onEmFf5BPnhKkihECCiGYjmsJqWZwxIOyBB6At_7_Ont3VqcC2EIP_vs/w318-h400/Screen+Shot+2020-06-15+at+9.11.03+PM.png" width="318" /></a><br /><br /><b><span style="font-family: "times";"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: Pat McCormick was in that writers room.</i><br />
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Saul Illson: He arrived after my time. Pat was one of a kind. It's hard to describe Pat McCormick. He was a really good comedy writer, but <i>insane</i>. I spent one season with Danny Kaye and after that I had an offer to work for Nick Vanoff. He promised me if I would come work with him I could produce. I wanted to produce as well as write, because every time I handed in a piece it was always chopped up. So I took the job working for Nick who did a show called <i>Hollywood Palace. </i></span></b></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times"; font-size: large;">There was a writer by the name of Jay Burton. Jay was probably one of the best joke writers I ever worked with. We went over to Debbie Reynolds house. She was going to be on the show. Carrie was a little girl then. This was 1964-1965. Carrie had rescued a pigeon and nursed it and they were going to release it soon from this cage. Debbie said, "Would you like to see this bird?" Jay said, "No, no, I'll take your word." She opened the cage and the bird ran around and took a dump on Jay's shoulder. </span></b></div>
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<span style="font-size: large;"><b><span style="font-family: "times";">Jay went over to see Bob Hope who was doing a Command Performance for King George at the Palladium. At the last minute Hope said, "I need another joke." They said to Jay, "Hope needs a joke quick!" Jay wrote a joke and now he's looking for Hope. At the Palladium, all the dressing rooms were below the theater itself and Jay is running around. He was afraid he was going to lose his job. He opens a door, there's someone. He opens another door, there's somebody else. He opens a door - and there is King George. He looks at him and says, "Heya, King!" And closes the door (laughs).</span></b></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: large;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhW5Iyek1eRI8RXA_C_vjU3UelDQLh11YXNSRFKqfF-a0pa8V1g1F9R03CQgOWJTh4Cfi3m7qdzRmB7A4JvXdKBXQ_s2F57GIOBCyuvhxth8sbevuy7zAvOksCLtPX94E08MswtjheJFN8/s972/Screen+Shot+2020-06-15+at+9.15.49+PM.png" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em; text-align: center;"><img border="0" data-original-height="688" data-original-width="972" height="284" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhW5Iyek1eRI8RXA_C_vjU3UelDQLh11YXNSRFKqfF-a0pa8V1g1F9R03CQgOWJTh4Cfi3m7qdzRmB7A4JvXdKBXQ_s2F57GIOBCyuvhxth8sbevuy7zAvOksCLtPX94E08MswtjheJFN8/w400-h284/Screen+Shot+2020-06-15+at+9.15.49+PM.png" width="400" /></a><br /><br /><b><span style="font-family: "times";"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: What was the experience of writing the Hollywood Palace like? You were dealing with a different star every week.</i><br />
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Saul Illson: Basically we would write what we called wraparounds. They would come in with their act and then we would add some material that was current. As a matter of fact, I think that my first show - I was cursed on the air by Jack Carter. He's not America's sweetheart, by the way. </span></b></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times"; font-size: large;">What happened was - Khruschev was fired from the Kremlin suddenly. So I thought of a line that would be funny. I went to Jack and I said I have a joke you should do. I gave it to him right before he went on. "When Mrs. Khruschev heard what the Kremlin did to her husband, she became so irate she ran into the Kremlin and said, 'America is right! You <i>are</i> all a bunch of communists!' Well, he did it and the joke did not get a laugh. Nobody laughed. </span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times"; font-size: large;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: Jack Carter got mad about this.</i><br />
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Saul Illson: On the air! He said, "Saul Illson wrote that for me. It's not my joke."<br />
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Kliph Nesteroff:<a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2012/04/interview-with-william-o-harbach-part.html"> I interviewed Hollywood Palace producer Bill Harbach</a>.</i><br />
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Saul Illson: Yeah, he's a legend. Did he talk about getting in the cab? Bill Harbach was brilliant, but he used to count on his fingers. He had strange ways of communicating. He'd get into a cab and say, "Take me to Circle 5-7000" instead of just saying NBC. He said to his secretary, "Get me Ethel Waters!" She knew that meant Esther Williams.</span></b></div>
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Saul Illson: Always. He sat in the audience right behind the camera and he was the cheerleader. I worked on that show for a year. Immediately Nick got a show called <i>The King Family</i>. He asked me to produce it. I did the show and continued to contribute pieces for the <i>Hollywood Palace.</i> Nick Vanoff was the nicest, smartest, and best producer I ever worked for. </span></b></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times"; font-size: large;">I have worked for crazy ones like George Schlatter - who I love. He's a maniac, in a nice way. Did he ever tell you the story about Al Hirt at Rockefeller Center? It was one of my first jobs in television. Clark Jones was our director at the time. Across from Radio City Music Hall they were building the Sperry-Rand Building. The girders were still up and everything. </span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times"; font-size: large;">Clark said, "You know, on top of Radio City Music Hall there's a balcony. We could put Al Hirt up on the girders and shoot it from the balcony and it would be an interesting place to do the number." Schlatter said, "Sure, let's do it." We had Al Hirt for one day. I think it was a Sunday morning. He would do two numbers. We didn't need much rehearsal. </span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times"; font-size: large;">So we told Al Hirt we were going to do it up on the girders on the sixth floor, which was level with Radio City Music Hall. Clark Jones checked and the sun would be just right. They told him there's no elevator. Al Hirt said, "Are you crazy?" But Schlatter convinced him to do it. Sunday morning we all went and we working up on the girders. We had a crew carrying all their equipment. We pre-recorded the music the night before with drums, guitar, and everything. We get up there and there's a nice platform for him to work on. </span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times"; font-size: large;">Hirt said, "Damn, it's cold up here." I said to someone, "Bring that old can over here." And we lit a fire. We're rehearsing the number and some old man who was a watchman ran up the sixth flights. He came up and said, "What are you doing? You're going to burn the building down! You have to put out that fire!" He was yelling and screaming. The watchman was disgusted. He turns around, walks two feet, has a heart attack, and dies! </span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times"; font-size: large;">So now he's lying there. And everybody is stunned. Now the police arrive. They explain nobody is to do anything until the coroner arrives. But we were going to lose the sun and Al Hirt in two hours. The police covered the body with a pink blanket. Clark Jones said, "The damn thing is in the shot. Move the body." The police had said, "No, you can't move anything." George said to me, "Go to the police and ask if we can put a dark blanket over the body." So I went to the police, "Would it be possible to cover it with a <i>dark</i> blanket?" They said, "That's unusual - but okay." A dark, gray blanket covers the body. </span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times"; font-size: large;">Clark Jones said, "No, we need to make a mound on the other side so it looks the same on both sides." So we picked up debris or whatever and we covered <i>that </i>with a dark gray blanket. The police couldn't believe what was going on. Clark Jones says, "Okay, I think it's even. It looks balanced." The police said, "You're going to do this number <i>now</i>?" Schlatter said, "Sorry, sorry, but we have to do it." </span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times"; font-size: large;">So we started the playback and Al Hirt is beside himself, he wanted to quit, he wanted to leave, he cursed George Schlatter. Schlatter said, "You have a contract. You <i>have </i>to do it or you don't get paid." We started to do it - and the guy's family shows up - and they start to cry! Al Hirt sees them and he yells, "Cut! I'm not doing this! I'm leaving." Schlatter said, "We only have you for two hours - let's just get it over with!" </span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times"; font-size: large;">Al Hirt went to the family. He asked them to move over to the side so he wouldn't have to look at them! We did the number, pack up, leave. Coroner never showed while we were there. Three weeks later George calls and says, "We have a meeting with NBC. The agency, J. Walter Thompson, said it can't be in the show. They heard about what went on." George set up a screening at NBC for the executives at J. Walter Thompson. They're looking and they're watching it and they play it about five times. George says to them, "Now tell me - which side is the body?" One of them said, "It's very obvious - it's the one on the left." The other guy goes, "No, no, look at the height. It's the one on the right." This went on for two hours! They couldn't come to a conclusion and so the number stayed in the show! </span></b></div>
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Unknownnoreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2398796842887862508.post-78891154075595445712020-05-14T22:26:00.001-07:002020-05-19T21:35:54.910-07:00An Interview with Ron Friedman <div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: I wrote for Timmie Rogers. I worked with a lot of Black comics and singers who did the Chitlin Circuit. </span><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Timmie Rogers was an absolutely lovely guy.</span><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"> </span><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">I was just beginning in the business and the William Morris office always assigned new writers to the Black clients because they couldn't pay that much. So the beginner got to work with the Black comics. I certainly didn't mind. </span></span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Timmie Rogers was a lovely guy and he told me he wanted to make his act stronger and he wanted to make an album. He took me up to 125th Street to a bar and introduced me to some of the other favorite Black acts. </span><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">He had more irons in the fire than just one-liners or anecdotal jokes. Although there were very few comics doing anecdotal stuff in the 1950s. </span><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Timmie was a good musician and he wrote some songs. One of them made the Hit Parade. It was called Fla-Ga-La-Pa. </span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff: Were you specifically writing material for nightclubs?</i><br /><br />Ron Friedman: Yes. Timmie hired me. The William Morris office put me together with two other writers - Ronald Axe and Sol Weinstein. And we wrote the Timmie Rogers comedy album <i>If I Were President</i>. I don't know if you know Sol Weinstein.</b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff: <a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2012/04/interview-with-sol-weinstein.html">Yeah, I interviewed him before he died</a>.</i></b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: Oh, so you <i>did </i>know him. He was an absolutely brilliant meshugganah and great fun to work with. He wrote all of his <i>Israel Bond</i> books - the Jewish James Bond. The album was, I thought, hilarious. So did everyone who heard it including our A&R man Quincy Jones. Also the guy at Mercury Records who hired us - Creed Taylor. The album looked very hot and then Mercury pulled it because all of the Southern radio stations threatened to ban everything released by Mercury Records in protest. And so they squelched it.</span></b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Kliph Nesteroff: Was that album, at least in part, sort of based on the success of Vaughn Meader's The First Family?</span></i></b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>Ron Friedman: At this moment, I can't say for sure, but I imagine so. It was the same time frame. I really thought it was a hilarious album and we had some great performers on it like Ossie Davis and Ruby Dee. And a guy named Hal Cromer who was the original Stumpy of Stump and Stumpy. They were a great act that played the Chitlin Circuit for years. They always played the Apollo. </b></span><br /><br /><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgq4-FuqItRAOw0w-pIKTh7Heap4h78nm48v1Ei4TCqWLYkoAUoqELqlTdpqvA9vA5sj2kQm9iMZOS3NVJVTSNNo8z-gfdI32hIn9iUV8qwI10KoY0F1sGmqzUBWV2DhWGYnr3uJ8l594E/s1600/Screen+Shot+2020-04-19+at+1.09.57+AM.png" imageanchor="1" style="font-family: Times; margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em; text-align: center;"><img border="0" data-original-height="836" data-original-width="654" height="400" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgq4-FuqItRAOw0w-pIKTh7Heap4h78nm48v1Ei4TCqWLYkoAUoqELqlTdpqvA9vA5sj2kQm9iMZOS3NVJVTSNNo8z-gfdI32hIn9iUV8qwI10KoY0F1sGmqzUBWV2DhWGYnr3uJ8l594E/s400/Screen+Shot+2020-04-19+at+1.09.57+AM.png" width="312" /></a><br /><br /><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Hal was one of the greatest impressionists I have ever encountered. He was the first Black act to do white impressions. Sammy Davis Jr. got the courage to do it from Hal. Hal was a dead ringer for Miles Davis. Shortly after we recorded <i>If I Were President</i>, I was brought out to Hollywood by Danny Kaye to write on <i>The Danny Kaye Show</i>. </span></b><br /><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiHF8Aso46NmFO998-LAo5j2TfpWQtsIpE3lsELoOciOaOnWkheOwvQXEve2gvg16JLpN1O4YRx-GlA8gXAadkzh5a4-38kMqn_HfLAt6Gh9h9aHhhl0X-leHQ96RGZQW9G3wW4ALdQS88/s1600/Screen+Shot+2020-04-19+at+1.09.50+AM.png" imageanchor="1" style="font-family: Times; margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em; text-align: center;"><img border="0" data-original-height="610" data-original-width="646" height="302" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiHF8Aso46NmFO998-LAo5j2TfpWQtsIpE3lsELoOciOaOnWkheOwvQXEve2gvg16JLpN1O4YRx-GlA8gXAadkzh5a4-38kMqn_HfLAt6Gh9h9aHhhl0X-leHQ96RGZQW9G3wW4ALdQS88/s320/Screen+Shot+2020-04-19+at+1.09.50+AM.png" width="320" /></a><br /><br /><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>I was standing by the pool at the Chateau Marmont and I saw Hal Cromer. I said, "Hal, why didn't you tell me you were in town? We could've had dinner." He said, "We all look the same to you, don't we baby?" I said, "What's with your voice?" He said, "Yeah, you can't tell one of us from the other." I said, "Don't give me that shit, Hal. What's the problem?" He laughed. "Man, I'm not Hal Cromer, Goddammit! I'm Miles Davis!" I said, "Well, who gives a fuck!" He roared with laughter. "You don't dig music?" I said, "Oh, you're the guy who played eight bars at the Hollywood Bowl and then stormed off!" Anyway, he and Hal were dead ringers. He said, "I'm just fucking with you. People have been confusing me with Hal for generations." </b></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br /><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: Tell me more about Timmie Rogers...</i><br /><br />Ron Friedman: Timmie Rogers was the first person William Morris put me together with. In those days, Wally Amos was a famous William Morris agent because he brought in all the Black singers and they all became crossover successes - like Sam Cooke. But he became too visible at William Morris and the head of the music department replaced him out of jealousy. But he's the guy who brought in those crossover acts. Wally Amos of Famous Amos.</span></b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff: On that same Timmie Rogers comedy record there is the very inspired casting of Kenny Delmar as a bigoted Southern politician. He famously played Senator Claghorn on Fred Allen's radio show. That character was later the basis for Foghorn Leghorn in Looney Tunes cartoons.</i><br /><br />Ron Friedman: "That's a joke, son! That's a joke!"</b></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><br /><i>Kliph Nesteroff: When he did that character on The Fred Allen Show, it was obvious he was a Southern politician but there was never any reference to race or racism. In a way it was implied. Finally, here on this comedy record, the character is basically channeling Senator Bilbo or one of the other notorious bigots in Washington. I think the character's name on the LP is Senator Bullbo...</i></b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>Ron Friedman: Absolutely. Exactly. I haven't heard the album in years, but I remember being very proud of it. I particularly enjoyed the track called Timmie Rogers' Dream where Hal plays a slave ancestor. At the time I thought it was a breakthrough. </b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: Who were some of the other African-American comedians you wrote for?</i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>Ron Friedman: Flip Wilson. We hit it off. But I lucked out and I got better paying gigs and had a play to write. I wanted to get out of the stand-up world as quickly as I could because I had to follow the acts around. I went to places like Erie, Pennsylvania and the Elegante in Brooklyn and the Upstairs at the Duplex, and the Downstairs at the Fuck You...</b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: (laughs) </i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>Ron Friedman: I met all the Mafia guys I ever wanted to meet. That was no life. I had a family and wanted to be there for my kids. Lucky for me, I don't have to stand up to be funny. I don't have that need. That's enabled me to have a real life. I don't know of too many comics who manage to have a real life. </b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: When I interviewed Sol Weinstein it was for an<a href="https://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2012/02/the-mob-the-comedians.html"> article I was writing about Alan Drake.</a></i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><a href="https://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2012/02/the-mob-the-comedians.html">Ron Friedman: Oh yeah, I remember Alan</a>. Absolutely. Sol Weinstein also wrote songs. He couldn't read or write music, but he would sing the song to people to sell it. I was there when he sang - and sold - "The Curtain Falls" to Bobby Darin.</span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: When Dick Gregory burst on the scene he hired white, Jewish, comedy writers to punch up his act.</b></i></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: He did. One of them was Ronnie Axe with whom I worked with on the Timmie Rogers album. I met with Dick and Ronnie and gave them some jokes. In those days you would give away a lot of material with the hopes that it would get you a writing job for real money. I also knew Godfrey Cambridge. He was another lovely guy. </span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br /></span><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">I wrote some jokes for S</span><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">catman Crothers. Louis Armstrong too. </span><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">My admiration for these Black artists was enormous because I knew the shit they put up with. They managed not to let it make them bitter. It made them angry, but not bitter. That kind of courage in the face of horrible adversary... I admired their heart and their guts. It's all kind of a blur because if you were writing for stand-up comics in New York in the early 1960s - you didn't sleep. You'd have to hang with them, go to their try-outs, and sit with them. And even though I loved a lot of the comics... to sit with a comic when they're not working or don't feel successful is to take a page out of Edgar Allen Poe. </span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>Jonathan Winters was one. He'd go in the other room and paint the windows black and say, "It's a bad scene, man, it's a bad scene. A bad, bad, bad scene." And I'd say, "What will cheer you up, Jonny? You want me to talk about somebody dying? You want me to set something on fire? You want me to talk about the history of Israel?" Nothing worked. "Bad scene, bad scene." Most successful comics that really make you laugh are either hurting a lot or are terminally pissed off. </b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>Joan Rivers was like that. She was intensely sensitive. She never thought she was pretty enough or bright enough. We started at the same time. I remember William Morris sending me over to meet with her because I was new and so was she. I had no money. Neither did she. Her manager was Bobby Bernard. I met her in his office in the Brill Building. The thing about the Brill Building, whenever anybody left the building, they put their hat in front of their face. There were a lot of Mafia fronts in the Brill Building acting as theatrical agents. Anyway, Rivers was there and she was stealing stamps from Bobby Bernard so she could cash them in to eat at the automat.</b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: Wasn't AGVA a Mafia front?</b></i></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>Ron Friedman: Probably. Everything else was. Every restaurant in New York was the Mob. If you wanted to get your linen or wanted your garbage removed, that's who you were dealing with. The front table at the clubs would be reserved for the wiseguys and their hooker girlfriends. </b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: You mentioned the Brill Building. The other important showbiz building was a block away - 1650 Broadway.</i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: Oh, yes.</span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: There were a lot of managers and song publishers upstairs and on the ground floor was Hanson's Drugstore.</b></i></span><br />
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><br />Ron Friedman: Yes, Hanson's was one place and also the B&G.<br /><br /><i>Kliph Nesteroff: The B&G Coffee Shop next door.</i><br /><br />Ron Friedman: Yeah. That was a big hangout for comics. Also the automat was very popular. You'd always see Jerry Lester there. Also a lot of old vaudeville comics. I'd always see Billy 'Cheese and Crackers' Hagan there. He was a famous burlesque comic. After anyone ever said anything he'd say, "Jeez! And crackers!" That was his whole act! Also Mike Sachs, the blind baggy-pants comic who performed with the Seeing-Eye Lady, a stooge with big tits. He'd always reach for them and say, "Oh, the weather is soft." </b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: One of your credits is the 1963 version of The Jerry Lester Show.</i><br /><br />Ron Friedman: It originated from New York. It was another thing I wrote with Ronnie Axe and Sol Weinstein. It was 90-minutes on Fridays and Saturdays. Jerry liked joke-jokes and I wrote a routine called the Voice of Russia. There was a radio station called Voice of America. One of the jokes, "Here are soccer scores: Poland - nil. Russia - fifteen. Yugoslavia - nothing, Russia - twelve. Romania - 2, Russia - 42. All games scheduled to be played tomorrow night." Jerry Lester said to me, "No, no, no. I'm not going to get political." </span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>So I sent that routine to a show where comics read material to see if it would get laughs. Shecky Greene was on the show and he read the Voice of Russia. I met Shecky later. He appeared in a <i>Love, American Style</i> episode that I wrote. He played opposite Mama Cass. Shecky was fabulous. <a href="https://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2011/06/the-legend-of-shecky-greene.html">I'm sure you've written about Shecky somewhere.</a></b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i><a href="https://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2011/06/the-legend-of-shecky-greene.html">Kliph Nesteroff: Yes</a>.</i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: You know about the drinking problem and the Caesar's Palace? No spray wax?</span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: Yes. The thing I find most interesting about him is his name. If you call yourself Shecky, it means comedian. </i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>Ron Friedman: Exactly.</b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: But it usually means - and this is not Shecky Greene's fault - but over the years the name has been distorted into a shorthand which means "bad comedian."</i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: Yes. That's true. Shecky was brilliant and probably one of the faster minds on the planet. Just like Don Rickles. He could make things happen.</span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: Shecky was underrated as an impressionist. His impression of Danny Thomas is hilarious. His impression of Shelley Berman is also hysterical.</i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: Absolutely. Also a superb actor. As was Don Rickles. <i>The Rat Race</i> was one of the best Don Rickles films.</span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: With Debbie Reynolds.</i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>Ron Friedman: Yes, and he was also in <i>Casino</i>.</b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: When you were writing for Black comedians - where did you go see them perform? Were they still playing Black venues or had they crossed over already?</i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: I was mostly at this Black nightclub down the street from Small's Paradise in Harlem. I was walking around Harlem with Timmie and he goes, "The <i>eyes </i>are upon you!" And he put his arm around me and said, "Now the eyes will close." </span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>I saw what he put up with sometimes and yet he didn't let that kill his joy of life. Sammy Davis wasn't able to manage quite the same way. He would often just tear into white people and get in their face. But he was wounded <i>deeply</i>. </b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: Jerry Lester had a number of short-lived shows in the late 1950s and early 1960s. Most of them were regional programs. After he left Broadway Open House on NBC in 1950, he never had another real success. What was the format of the one you worked on?</i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>Ron Friedman: It was a syndicated show originating in New York. I don't know where else it aired. The guy who produced it was Vern something. The orchestra was top flight with some of the best studio musicians around and Tyree Glenn was the trombone guy. Clark Terry sat in with the band a couple of times. It was just another <i>Tonight Show</i> rip-off with an endless supply of one-liners and guests like Rudy Vallee who was one of the least funny guys ever. He took me and Ronnie and Sol out for dinner to some off-Broadway, under-Broadway, restaurant. The reason he did this was because he was comped if he would do fifteen minutes. </b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>So we were eating and he stands up and they shined a flash light on him and he did fifteen minutes! He said, "She was my Melancholy Baby. She had a head like a melon and a face like a collie. Her teeth were like stars - they came out at night." Those were his jokes. So we hid underneath the table.</b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: Was it called The Jerry Lester Show?</i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: I think it was called <i>Weekend with Jerry Lester</i>.</span></span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br />Part of my job was to interview the guests to find out if they had something interesting to say. </span><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Rudy Vallee. Bobby Darin. Bobby Vinton who was more nervous than anyone I had ever seen. He was literally sweating. Nipsey Russell - who was a much-decorated war hero and never spoke of it.</span></span></b><br />
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Kliph Nesteroff: Nipsey Russell's first big break was in Montreal in the late 1940s. He became fluent in French and had two different stand-up acts, one in English and one in French.</span></span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: I'm not surprised because he was absolutely brilliant. A</span><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"> highly intelligent person. I think he was gay. I would meet Black guys who said, "We love Nipsey even though he's on the fence." Back then that was jive talk for being gay.</span></span></b><br />
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><br /><i>Kliph Nesteroff: Did you write for Nipsey?</i></b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: No, but I met him and talked to him at length when he was on the <i>Tonight Show</i> with Jack Carter. Jack was guest hosting. Jack Paar left and Johnny Carson hadn't taken over yet.<br /><br /><i>Kliph Nesteroff: <a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2011/11/interview-with-jack-carter-part-seven.html">Let's talk about Jack Carter. I knew him very well</a>.</i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: I did too.</span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: In the years before I knew him I would see him on TV and I never ever liked his act. </i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: Yeah.</span></span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: But once I got to know him, I found him to be absolutely hilarious - offstage.</i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: Yes. He was.</span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: His rage. His rage was so funny.</i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: Yes, it was. You know, he did a series of "nude impressions" with his dick...</span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: (laughs)</i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: Which I didn't particularly want to see, but he would do "Telephone Repairman" and "Flowers by Wire" and all kinds of shit. I'll tell you a great Jack story. I really liked Jack. He was his own worst enemy. He was a sore, sore winner. </span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>He was saying to me, "Fran Jeffries. Fran Jeffries. I'd really like to get with her. But every time we're about to set it up, something happens. She's out of town or I get a gig or she gets married. But tonight! Tonight! I'm seeing her tonight and we're going to <i>do it</i>. Fran Jeffries! Can't wait!" </b></span><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">So I see him the next day and I said, "So, how'd it go with Fran?" He says, "Well, we were in the hotel and she takes out this little satchel. A little suitcase. She opens it. There's an electric vibrator. There's another electric something with a windmill on it. There's another electric thing you shove up your ass and your balls light up." </span><span style="text-align: center;">She's laying all this stuff out and Jack says, "Call me when there's a power failure!" </span></span></b><br />
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b><br class="Apple-interchange-newline" />Kliph Nesteroff: (laughs)</b></i></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br /><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Ron Friedman: I was writing for Jack the week he hosted the <i>Tonight Show</i>. I was working with him in his apartment and he goes, "That's it! I can't stand it anymore! I can't listen to this! That's it! Go home!" So I go home. At three in the morning he calls. He says, "You like that chair in my living room? It's yours." I said, "What the fuck are you talking about? It's three in the morning!" He says, "Yeah, but I was rough with you yesterday. So when you come over next time - take the chair."</span></b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: (laughs)</i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>Ron Friedman: This other time he was walking with his wife and he sees this beautiful girl go by. He said to his wife, "Look at those tits! Look at that ass! Jesus Christ! Look at that body!" His wife goes, "Yeah, let's get her to suck our dick." That was the Jack Carter I knew.</b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: He had an incredible memory. If I mentioned some obscure dance team he worked with in 1944 he could recall every detail - and was still mad about something they did seventy years ago. What was the week that he guest hosted the Tonight Show like?</i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi8fWOg06IyxgbKAT2q3AP8y6L2DsvQ4niXbb4yXf8uFOc9RlAixnE3YPJyrwZclay2zCWWOQS7LUuE32LGprl_81MARW26kY12Wto4ihKODjRSTa7TD5Fv31G3LMSTUX4IXrTnXsxy_BM/s1600/Screen+Shot+2020-05-14+at+3.55.50+PM.png" imageanchor="1" style="font-family: Times; margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em; text-align: center;"><img border="0" data-original-height="644" data-original-width="804" height="256" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi8fWOg06IyxgbKAT2q3AP8y6L2DsvQ4niXbb4yXf8uFOc9RlAixnE3YPJyrwZclay2zCWWOQS7LUuE32LGprl_81MARW26kY12Wto4ihKODjRSTa7TD5Fv31G3LMSTUX4IXrTnXsxy_BM/s320/Screen+Shot+2020-05-14+at+3.55.50+PM.png" width="320" /></a><br /><br /><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Ron Friedman: Jack was always impossible. I would write a lot of jokes for him and he would always say, "That's an applause line. I don't want applause. I want laugh lines." I remember that one of the guests was going to be Don Rickles so I wrote some sort of intro about how he was supposed to be in a western movie "but they couldn't find a holster to fit his mouth." Jack read that and said to me, "Why make <i>him</i> look good?"<br /><br /><i>Kliph Nesteroff: How was Jack as a Tonight Show host?</i></span></b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>Ron Friedman: Very funny! He was very good, but didn't listen too well. So he didn't really interview the guests, he would just listen long enough until he thought of a line to throw back at them. I remember Gordon and Sheila MacRae were the guests and he didn't know what to say to them. So finally he just said, "Hey, nobody wants to hear you talk. Sing something!" It was a very successful week. I remember his manager Ray Katz was absolutely thrilled. He said to me, "You're the first guy to make Jack look like a human being." I said, "Please don't accuse me of things." He said, "No, no, you gave him lines that were funny and they didn't just sound like a stand-up comic rattling off one-liners." I said, "Well, I wrote a whole act that Jack might like." </b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>Ray Katz said, "Come down to the office and do it for me and Jack." And so I did. It was about New York. "New York. Founded by Louis Stuyvesant in 1642 - and they still haven't finished it yet." Anyway, they liked it. Jack said, "I'm not going to pay you because I'm already paying you, but I'll take some of the lines. Okay?" I said, "Um, no." He said, "Good."<br /><br /><i>Kliph Nesteroff: Did you write for any of the other Tonight Show guest hosts?</i><br /><br />Ron Friedman: No, because at that time I was writing <i>Car 54, Where Are You?</i> starring Joe E. Ross and Fred Gwynne. I met with the head writer, Nat Hiken - and his writing partner... Billy Friedkin?</b></span><br />
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Kliph Nesteroff: Billy Friedberg, I think.</span></span></b></i><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>Ron Friedman: Friedberg. I was writing this script with George Foster. He was an old hand who wanted my help writing a situation comedy because he had never written one before. So we're in there working on this script. Joe E. Ross was in the hallway and asked to come in. Nat said, "Tell him to wait a minute." Ross married actual hookers. Hiken said to Foster and me, "Listen, he just got divorced. That was like the fifth hooker marriage he's had so... be prepared for anything." So he came in, "Ooh! Ooh! Ooh!" Hiken said, "How's the divorce situation?" Ross said, "Being married to a hooker is like being married to a doctor. They get calls in the middle of the night and you gotta let them go because that's their profession. But I figured out how much she charges for each fuck and each blowjob, so in this one, I feel like I got off easy. It worked out to less than twenty-seven dollars." A very sensitive guy (laughs).</b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><br /><i>Kliph Nesteroff: How about Nat Hiken? A legend.</i></b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: Oh yeah. Totally. He was sort of like a Sheldon Leonard. If they said it - it was etched in stone. So one time we were in there working and talking away. He tells us what the line would be and then asked, "What do you think, Billy?" Billy Friedberg said, "Whatever you say, Nat." That was their whole relationship. "What do you think?" "Whatever you say." </span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: Were you a staff writer on Car 54?</b></i></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: Nat Hiken didn't have staff writers because he preferred to write every show or most of them. I was writing for the show, but then it got canceled and they never even shot it. </span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: You mentioned George Foster. He produced many famous comedy records later on - sketch comedy. And to that point - you became a writer for Vaughn Meader.</i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>Ron Friedman: Mickey Ross was a director and a writer who got me a job writing Sergio Franchi's nightclub act. Mickey liked my work and he was offered an album with Vaughn Meader. It was his first non-JFK album. We wrote an album called <i>Have Some Nuts</i>. Vaughn loved what I wrote and asked me to write his new act. His first post-Kennedy act. He was worried. "Oh fuck, what am I going to do..." I said, "I'll write a new act for you, you'll open big, and everyone in the world will be there." And they were. He opened at the Blue Angel. </b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>Shelley Berman came in a tuxedo to introduce Vaughn and to introduce me as his writer. Shelley had been instrumental in getting me into the business. Everybody was there. Every magazine, every newspaper, local New York and national television. They were all there and it was jammed. The reviews all said the material was brilliant. Danny Kaye was in the audience. Afterward he said to me, "You're coming to California." I said, "Never. I hate California." He said, "You'll come." Anyway, that was how I ended up on <i>The Danny Kaye Show</i>. It was a natural progression. Each step I wanted to write more substantial things with the ultimate goal of plays and books and novels - not stand-up. </b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Kliph Nesteroff: How did Shelley Berman help you?</span></span></b></i><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>Ron Friedman: He knew me from summer stock. I convinced him to let me write for him. He had told me, "Nobody can write for me - but here's my address." Six weeks later he phoned me. "You can really do this. Come to New York. I'll be doing <i>The Perry Como Show</i>. I'll get you an agent." So I made arrangements, went to the Como show, and there was Shelley. I said, "Shelley, I'm here. Ron Friedman from Pittsburgh." He said, "It'll be there when you return." I said, "What do you mean?" He said, "I'm having a nervous breakdown. I'm going to Jamaica. I'll see you later." I said, "But I flew in from Pittsburgh!" He said, "I'm sorry. I'm going to Jamaica." And he <i>did</i>! He did the Como show and went straight to Jamaica. </b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>The scenic designer on <i>The Perry Como Show </i>was my fraternity brother Gary Smith. He saw the exchange and he said, "Did you bring any material with you?" I said, "I did." He said, "Give it to me and I'll show it to the head writer Goodman Ace." So he gave it to him and I waited outside. Goodman came out and said, "Come with me." He took me into the writer's room and gestured to the boys and said, "I don't have any money in the budget, but if any of these Jews die - you're hired." He told me to call Larry Auerbach at William Morris and asked him to sign me right away. I talked to him and he said, "I can't sign you if you're in Pittsburgh." So that's when I moved to New York.</b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b><br />Kliph Nesteroff: Did you meet Vaughn Meader before the Kennedy assassination ended his career?</b></i></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: Yes. I also met his close friend and part-time road manager, Bucky Searles. He was married to Donna Jean Young who was a stand-up comedian from Turtle Creek, Pennsylvania. </span></span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">After the assassination Vaughn Meader was essentially</span> the same guy. He was genuinely a good guy with a good heart. He had a German wife named Vera. </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He enjoyed success more than anybody I knew. He took me to the opening game of the Mets season at Shea's Stadium where he had a box seat. He took me to his tailor where he had suits made for me by the dozens. He had suits made for me and wouldn't take a penny. He was just a generous, warm-hearted, really good guy. He was also kind of lazy. He liked to play Kennedy because he had that accent naturally. If you had met him - you would have liked him. There was nothing mean-spirited about him nor did he rejoice in the failures of his competitors. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He rejoiced in the success of his friends and colleagues. He really did. I hated to see him sink. But the fact is, the act was a big success but he wouldn't really do new material. He just played it out doing that one act and then ended up back home in Waterville, Maine where he did a <i>filthy </i>act. Like the Dornan Brothers. You know about the Dornan Brothers? A very famous New England comedy duo.</span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: Vaughn Meader did a folk singer parody and a routine called the Living Newspaper during that comeback show at the Blue Angel.</b></i></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: That wasn't anything I wrote, but they were in the act. God, I don't remember. All I remember is that it was successful. He did do a folk singing parody at his opening at the Blue Angel, yeah.</span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: There was a television pilot called The Vaughn Meader Show with Rip Taylor.</i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: Yes, I wrote that and co-produced it for ABC in 1964. Rip Taylor was a delightful guy. Another sweetheart.</span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff: You wrote an episode of The Andy Griffith Show called Goober's Contest. It is a rare instance in which the whole plot revolves around Floyd the Barber. Howard McNear has more lines than anyone else in the episode, but as I watched it - it seemed like he was slurring his words through the whole thing. It looked like he had a stroke.</i></b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: Exactly right.</span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: So the first episode where he has all the lines - he's slurring for a half hour. It's so weird to watch him struggling. I'm really surprised they aired it.</b></i></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: It's because Andy insisted on it. He wouldn't let them get rid of him. He was held up with all kinds of braces and things so he would still look like Floyd. I don't remember watching the episode. There was another one that I did called Goober's Contract which I wrote with Pat McCormick. </span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: Pat McCormick is notorious for being a wild man. How did you get him to sit down and write a straight, linear sitcom?</b></i></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: I was the guy doing the structure. That was my responsibility. When I wrote with him, I created the story, but Pat would be there with funny lines. Pat was a guy who needed to be on all the time. He had a coterie of friends and would go to any lengths to amuse them. He was friends with barflys and would do anything to get a laugh. And it was often embarrassing.</span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: If he needed to be on all the time, why did he stick to writing?</i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: Oddly enough, when he was performing - he wasn't comfortable. He was kind of awkward. He didn't trust his own material long enough to wait for the laugh. So he would often run over his own laughs. He was just never comfortable as a stand-up performer.</span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Kliph Nesteroff: Variety reported that you and Pat McCormick formed a company called Cathrew Productions in 1966. What was that?</span></span></b></i><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>Ron Friedman: I do not remember that. I don't think it ever happened. Pat may have planted that. He often planted things in the press and I would say, "What the fuck is this?" He'd say, "Oh, whatever - ink is good. It doesn't matter. Ink is good." Showbiz is bullshit so you never know if what you're reading is true or where it came from or what the intended purpose was. I remember a public relations guy in New York named Larry who had a deal with Earl Wilson's column.</b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>He'd pick up bimbos and tell them to change their names for showbiz to Joan something. He would say, "Whenever you see your new name in Wilson's column or Winchell's column - you'll have to fuck me. I'm helping your career." So he had like nine or ten of these women and renamed them Joan something - all the same name - the column ran the blurb - and then he'd fuck them all. He should've had a heart attack by the time he got to Joan number four, but he didn't. He didn't die and people said it was proof there was no God.</b></span><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: I wanted to ask you about Desilu-Cahuenga. I lived exactly mid-point between Desilu-Cahuenga and Desilu-Gower for a long time and biked past them daily. They have such an aura and such a history. This is where The Dick Van Dyke Show, The Real McCoys, The Andy Griffith Show, The Danny Thomas Show, The Joey Bishop Show, and The Lucy Show were being made all at the same time - side by side by side -all the soundstages in a row. I find this so interesting.</span></b></i><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>Ron Friedman: The atmosphere there was like the atmosphere at 20th Century Fox or Paramount. </b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: The Studio System.</i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: It really was. But it was definitely not like that if you worked on a show at Universal. Their television studio was like a buttoned-up, black tie, black suit thing - and in a tall black building. That building - you would never know it was show business. It looked like the headquarters of General Motors. None of them were wild and wooly because you had to deliver a show every week. So it was extremely business like. It was hard work. The commissary was often a place of amusement. At the Warner Brothers commissary Jack Warner had a sign that said, "Enjoy your lunch - and get back to work." But every lot was just about the same. You would see people you knew but not have time to talk to them. They were factories. </span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>Kliph Nesteroff: And a lot of the same actors, a lot of the same writers, working on all these shows.</b></span></i><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: Exactly.</span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: You wrote on The Jonathan Winters Show, a program nobody remembers. Nobody has really seen it since it originally aired during the 1967-1968 season. <a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2012/07/interview-with-dick-curtis-part-four.html">The sidekick was a nightclub comedian named Dick Curtis</a>.</i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: Yes, lovely guy. He had been a marine as had Jonny - which is why Jonny wanted him. A nice guy and a good straight man.</span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: Was it a successful show? Did it work to put Jonathan Winters into scripted sketches? </i></span></span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Ron Friedman: The first season worked great and had good ratings. His stuff always made the band laugh - they always understood what he was doing. And the more avant garde comedy fans - they got him. But for everyday people... you know, he was doing stream of consciousness stuff. It was not the usual kind of television comedy with the bidda-bing. The writer-producer was Sheldon Keller and he insisted Jonathan do a regular sketch as a married man. It was like a little family sketch as the put upon husband. That enabled people to relate to Jonathan. </span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>The ratings were high but then Jonny had a falling out with Sheldon Keller. Shelley was my close friend who I met on <i>The Danny Kaye Show </i>and from then on, whenever Shelley had a job - I worked. Whatever he was doing, he brought me in as a writer. Anyway, Shelley was fired because Jonathan did <i>not </i>want to do that family sketch. And so the second year, when I was the head writer and sometimes co-producer, there was no human, familiar, touchstone. </b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>I did find one thing that I thought would work. I got the rights to Jack Armstrong, the All-American Boy from radio and did a television version of it with Jonathan as Jack Armstrong. Charlie Weaver played his Uncle Jim. It did well and people loved it, but then Jonny didn't want to do that anymore either. There was nothing there for a general audience to connect with. So the ratings declined and I was called into Perry Lafferty's office at CBS to listen to the brass. </b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>They said, "The show isn't working because Jonathan is doing <i>you</i>." I said, "Huh?" They said, "Jonathan is doing Ron Friedman instead of doing Jonny." I said, "That's not happening. That's Jonathan out there." They said, "Well, something is wrong." I said, "Well, tell him to bring back the family sketch so that he can be relatable." He wouldn't do it and so the show tanked and was canceled. </b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: A lot of the TV shows of that period were trying to be - or felt pressured to be - like Laugh-In.</i></span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>Ron Friedman: They did, yes. That's what <i>The Andy Williams Show</i> did. Chris Bearde came on as their producer and tried to turn it into another <i>Laugh-In</i>. Absolutely. There were a lot of tries to emulate <i>Laugh-In</i> that failed. <i>Laugh-In</i> just struck it lucky. Rowan and Martin were kind of tame. Everyone knew who they were and Dick Martin was a terrific director but...</b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Kliph Nesteroff: They were sort of the Gods of the Lake Tahoe and Reno circuit.</span></span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: They were.</span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Kliph Nesteroff: The circuit was referred to as the Silver Circle. A lot of the comedians that were playing it were teams. Dozens - if not hundreds - of poor man versions of Rowan and Martin.</span></span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: Yes. That's right. There were so many comedy teams.</span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: The Jonathan Winters Show booked some of the young hippie bands like The Strawberry Alarm Clock, Jim Morrison and The Doors...</b></i></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;">Ron Friedman: I remember The Doors vividly because between dress and air their drummer vanished. And nobody knew where the fuck he was. So they sent someone looking for him. They found him in the parking lot sitting naked in a parked car because he had pissed himself in his leather suit.</span>
</span></b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><br /></span>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2398796842887862508.post-5208047210070479822019-07-22T14:30:00.001-07:002019-07-22T22:01:42.300-07:00An Interview with Paul Krassner - Part Seven<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You appeared on The Merv Griffin Show high on mescaline. The episode also featured comedian Jackie Vernon.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: Oh, yes. I had very long hair. Otto Preminger was also on the show. At one point Jackie Vernon said, "Why don't you take a bath?" I was caught off guard. I was used to cops saying that, but this was a syndicated television show. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I paused to think of an answer that was appropriate and Otto Preminger interrupted. He said, "That's the worst thing! That's like Nazi Germany where they stereotype people!" And they went to commercial. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">So it was much better coming from him than me. That was an interesting moment. George Carlin and I had a Monday morning quarterback session about it. He said, "You know, you could have said, 'You're right Jackie, I'll leave right now and take a bath." Aikido. Take the negative energy and turn it into something that takes the edge off.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /><i>Kliph Nesteroff: Right.</i><br /><br />Paul Krassner: There was another show where Jesse White was on with me. At one point Jesse White started saying stuff that seemed anti-African-American.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Jesse White the character actor... the Maytag repairman...</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: That's the one. I forget what he said, but I said, "You're a Jesse White supremacist!" Years later Michael O'Donoghue invited me to stop by <i>Saturday Night Live</i> where he was a writer. He was trying to pitch me to Lorne Michaels as a writer. He introduced me and I was in the room waiting for something and John Belushi ran into the room. He goes, "Hey! I never read anything you ever wrote, but I saw you put Jesse White where he belongs!" He shook my hand and he ran out.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Joey Bishop always expressed contempt for Lenny Bruce. Who else of the older comedy generation had a contemptuous attitude toward your generation?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: Milton Berle spoke at a comedy convention in Las Vegas. I covered it for the Los Angeles Times. I was going to ask him a question and he saw my press card on my jacket. The LA Times had just written a critical article about Berle. So Berle started saying something to me, "You want a question for that fucking paper?" </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">So, he was hostile at the paper, although not at me, so maybe you wouldn't count that. You know, there <i>were</i> threats. At one point I was performing in New York at a jazz club and I was doing a bit whether the Virgin Mary was concerned with missing her period. This drunk in the audience came at me with clenched fists. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I was holding the microphone stand between us as he approached. "I'm Catholic! I don't like what you're saying about the holy mother!" I said, "Before you attack, don't you think you should consult a priest?" The audience laughed and so he settled down. But you're asking about something different. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">You know, there were some older guys who admired Lenny Bruce, but wouldn't publicly say it. Of course, Lenny influenced people like David Steinberg and George Carlin. It was gratifying to learn Carlin was a fan of <i>The Realist. </i>He said the writing influenced him to be himself and take a chance. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">And he has inspired so many people, more than I ever could. It's gratifying that there is a continuity of that spirit. Lewis Black said he was influenced by <i>The Realist</i>. Sounds like boasting, but this is what he told me, and it is gratifying.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: How about some names related to Lenny Bruce. Marvin Worth.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: Marvin Worth had been a producer with <i>The Steve Allen Show</i>. He told me they weren't even going to show the sketch that I had written for them. It was about psychiatry and he told me, "Steve is going to a psychiatrist. He's not going to do this."</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Marvin Worth later produced the Lenny Bruce film starring Dustin Hoffman.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: That film... Dustin Hoffman called me. "I'm going to play Lenny. How do you think I should do it?" I said, "Don't rush through anything. Lenny liked to savor the implications of what he was saying." I saw the movie and he rushed through <i>everything</i>. He probably saw footage of Lenny during the persecution when he <i>was </i>talking fast and mumbling. But he never got across that thing where Lenny would be thinking - or act like he was thinking of a new idea right there. One time Lenny told the audience, "Please don't applaud, it breaks my rhythm." Can you imagine any other comedian saying, "Please don't applaud."</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: It's impossible to recreate comedy successfully. Conan O'Brien once said that comedy about comedy never works. Movies like Punchline with Tom Hanks or Mr. Saturday Night with Billy Crystal just can't successfully convey it. They show the fake audience laughing, but at home you're not laughing. Its easy to show a comedian character bombing, its impossible to convincingly portray them as killing.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: It's true. </span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Have you ever heard of a film called Dirtymouth? It was a Lenny Bruce biopic in 1970 before the Hoffman film. It featured a guy named Frankie Man who used to sell pot to Lenny.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: <a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2013/08/an-interview-with-frankie-man-part-one.html">Frankie Man doesn't ring a bell</a>. I didn't meet those guys. They were way older and knew Lenny long before I met him. </span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Shecky Greene and Lenny were close at one point.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: Yes, he had this whole coterie of guys like that. Buddy Hackett was another. There were people in his life that I didn't know. I never met any of those friends. I know Jackie Gayle was a good friend and when Lenny was really down and out it was Jackie Gayle who got him some gigs. So there was a kind of loyalty and camaraderie.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: When was the last time you saw Lenny Bruce?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: It's hard to know. It was either early 1966 or late 1965. He sent me a letter with a doodle he did of Jesus nailed to the crucifix with a speech balloon that said, "Where the hell is the ACLU?" </span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: How about Sally Marr...</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: Sally was great. She was one of the biggest influences on Lenny. For a while I was trying to track down who sold Lenny the heroin that he died from. It was pure.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: I thought it was a morphine overdose. </span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: I don't even know. I have a streak of naivete when it comes to those types of drugs. I was having lunch with Sally Marr and Lenny's step-father. It turned out he was the one who gave it to him. Sally had such compassion. She said, "Don't feel bad, Tony. Lenny would have done the same for you." So that ended my search.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: What was your search related to? Did you believe there was foul play?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: Yeah, I didn't think so, but there were people that thought he was killed, so I wanted to find out. I didn't think so myself. Other people thought it was suicide because his house had just been foreclosed and he couldn't get work. He had a toilet in his garden that he was trying to grow flowers in. He told his girlfriend Maury Haydn, who changed her named to Lotus Weinstock, "I think I'm going to die this year." She said, "If I buy you raisin cookies will you change your mind?" </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He was very death oriented so there were those who thought he committed suicide. The tea was still boiling on the stove and his electric typewriter was still on and had stopped mid-word. The word was 'constitution' and it was only as far as C-O-N-S-T. The machine was still humming, it was still on. It would be hard to imagine Lenny going out without leaving a note or anything. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">My friends Abbie Hoffman and Phil Ochs both committed suicide and neither left a note. Maybe when you're in that much pain you don't leave a note. I thought the overdose was because it was cleaner than other morphine or other heroin. Now I realize I don't know which it was. I've heard both.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Albert Goldman's Lenny Bruce biography from the seventies was very sensationalist.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: Albert Goldman wanted to interview me about some other project he was working on, but I refused to help him.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: A lot of the people you published in The Realist appeared on the television show That Was the Week That Was. </i><i>It was the first televised satire program in the United States. </i><i>At various times it featured Steve Allen, Woody Allen, Henry Morgan, Buck Henry, Dick Gregory...</i></span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: Yes, it kind of inspired <i>Not Necessarily News</i>. I watched it religiously. I never forgave David Frost for ordering every copy of <i>The Realist</i> and then never paying for it. But I was glued to that show because there was so little of that on TV. Dick Gregory and I were good friends. He told me I was the only white person he let in his house. I guess that was a compliment. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I watched TV with his daughters and they were laughing at the commercial for Clairol that asked, "Is it true blondes have more fun?" He visited me at my home in New York. On the side of the building there was a huge billboard for the Gold Dust Twins. He saw that and said, "They should chop the whole side of the building off and put it in a museum." We were in protest marches together. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">When Abbie and Anita Hoffman and I planned to go to Chicago for the Democratic National Convention in 1968, we were on acid at the time. I called Jerry Rubin to tell him we wanted to set up at meeting to discuss Chicago. I called Dick Gregory. He said to me, "I'm going to run for president. Do you think Bob Dylan would be a good running mate?" I said, "I would vote for him, but I don't think he would be at all interested." </span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: In one of your impolite interviews, you talk about how Mort Sahl did not participate in any Civil Rights marches, but that Woody Allen participated in the 1963 March on Washington.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: All the comedians I interviewed were controversial and that was the excuse for having them in <i>The Realist</i>. Woody Allen was not thought of as controversial, but he said the most controversial thing of anyone. I was asking him about the Buddhist monks who immolated themselves. I don't remember the exact wording but it was something like, "I wouldn't do a thing like that. I would join Planned Parenthood or the ACLU. If you're going to kill yourself, you should take somebody with you." I'm paraphrasing very poorly.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: I heard that while you were busy interviewing Mort Sahl, Lenny Bruce was busy sleeping with your wife.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: Ah, yeah, that's true. I deliberately didn't mention that in my chapter on Lenny because I didn't want to taint what happened to him. He wouldn't cop to it when I confronted him about it. I said, "Well, maybe Mike Nichols will know." He was following his own philosophy. You don't own people. You don't own your spouse. I was hurt by it. She told me about it. As empathetic as I could be, I forgave him. It may have been a betrayal of our friendship, but I had to get past it.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: How about a woman named Sandy Good who was involved with the counterculture sketch troupe the Committee before she ended up in the Charles Manson cult.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: When I was doing research on the Manson Family, I flew to LA from San Francisco. There were three of them living in an apartment. I took some tabs of acid with me. Sandy Good was there, Squeaky Fromme, and the third I forget. Sandy Good saw me perform with the Committee but she was not part of the troupe. When people asked her about Charles Manson, she compared him to Lenny Bruce and myself. It was the most bizarre compliment I have ever got. </span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: There was another cult at that time. The Mel Lyman family.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: Yeah, he published a thing called the Avatar. Squeaky Fromme told me that they had a plan. Mel Lyman and his group were going to free Charles Manson from jail using a helicopter. They tried to get Squeaky Fromme to become part of <i>their</i> group, but she didn't trust them. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">There's an episode of <i>The Dick Cavett Show </i>with Mark Frechette and Daria Halprin. They were both in the Mel Lyman cult and acted like zombies. There was a guy named Michael Kinder. He was the editor of the college paper at the University of Michigan. He became part of the cult and considered Mel Lyman his God. He worshiped him and was afraid of him because he'd get punished by him. Don West was the assistant to the head of CBS and he was also in with the Mel Lyman cult.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: </i></span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i>Mark Frechette accompanied Abbie Hoffman to the taping of</i></span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i> The Merv Griffin Show where Abbie wore an American flag shirt and they blacked it out, censored his clothing. He was accused of desecrating the flag. Today they sell that shit at Wal-Mart. </i></span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: Griffin later said he regretted that. He might not even have known that they [the censor] were going to do that.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: They had a bar across the screen so you couldn't see Abbie from the neck down. Merv Griffin said in his memoir that they cut to a commercial and it was an ad with Roy Rogers endorsing some car dealership and he was wearing an American flag shirt.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: I didn't know that! On that same show?</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: That's what Merv Griffin said in his book.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: Oh, wow. That's great. Reeks of irony.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br />Apparently Jackie Gleason worked for the FBI. I don't know exactly what he did. Later they were mad at him about something petty. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">It is amazing. They were scared of comedians! One thing the FBI did... they told the Mafia about Dick Gregory. They told them that Dick Gregory was talking them in his act and that he should be neutralized.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Wow.</span></b></i><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif;"><b><span style="font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: So, it got to that point. The New York bureau said it must not be made public. They were going to print up this flyer and it "should not be traced back to the bureau." </span></b><b><span style="font-size: large;">Hoover even had Helen Keller on his list. Really! It shows you how paranoid they are. </span></b></span>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2398796842887862508.post-68946887857877431182019-07-22T00:37:00.002-07:002019-07-22T00:47:47.703-07:00An Interview with Paul Krassner - Part Six<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You once appeared on the Tonight Show while you were high on LSD. <a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2014/04/an-interview-with-orson-bean-part-one.html">Orson Bean</a> was the guest host.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: That was just my thing. I had psychedelic macho. I testified at the Chicago Conspiracy Trial high on acid too. Abbie Hoffman stopped speaking to me for ten months because of that. In retrospect, I was, if nothing else, showing off to myself. "I can handle this and they won't even know!" </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I'm on the <i>Tonight Show </i>on acid and Orson Bean asks me, "Have you taken LSD?" It was a coincidence. He meant in a general sense. But I had this thought, "Oh, no, he can tell!" I kept staring at Ed McMahon because his face was melting into his chest. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">There was a core of reality and I turned back to Orson. I should note, <a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2014/07/an-interview-with-orson-bean-part-two.html">Orson Bean</a> and I were old friends. He had a framed cover of The Realist hanging in his dressing room. He was in a play called <i>Subways are for Sleeping</i>. The cover showed a </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">cartoon by Richard Guindon</span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">. I forget the chronology, but Orson and I were already friends. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He was at my wedding. He founded a school based on a school in England called Summerhill. The essence was that learning can be fun and should be fun. When he hosted the<i> Tonight Show</i> he had the power to book who he wanted. He booked the director of that school, A.S. Neill. Orson then stared the Fifteenth Street School in New York. My daughter Holly went there. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Orson loved <i>The Realist</i> and he loved Lenny Bruce, so that was the background of his inviting me on the <i>Tonight Show</i>. He asked me about [the famous Realist piece] The Parts That Were Left Out of the Kennedy Book. We had to describe presidential necrophilia without saying what it was on the air. </span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: (laughs)</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: Anyway, Orson said, "You've taken LSD, haven't you?" I said, "Yes." And the audience <i>booed</i>. </span></b><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff: (laughs)</i></b></span><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">A friend of mine booked me on <i>The Mike Douglas Show. </i>And for that I took a pot brownie. It takes as much as four hours to come on. So I ate it at Grand Central Station. It took four hours to get to Philadelphia where they did the show.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">The producer of <i>The Mike Douglas Show</i> show later became the producer on <i>The Dick Cavett Show</i>. She wanted me to come on, but Cavett said, "No, he's too unpredictable." I thought he would have liked a guest who was unpredictable, but apparently not. </span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: It is strange that you would be booked on The Joe Pyne Show and the Tonight Show and The Mike Douglas Show, yet Dick Cavett turns you down.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: Yes! That <i>was</i> ironic. They did explain to me that it could have been because he already had Jerry Rubin on. Jerry Rubin...</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: He always ruined it for everybody.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: (laughs) In a way! He and Abbie [Hoffman]. When I met Abbie we were on an acid trip talking about Lenny Bruce. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">When he heard that I had known Lenny and edited his autobiography How to Talk Dirty and Influence People, he said, "Lenny was my God! Ah!" </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Whereas Jerry Rubin listened to Lenny Bruce albums before he went out to speak. Abbie was spontaneous. Jerry was forced. And that came through. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I remember at one rally Jerry said, "Richard Nixon is an asshole!" I thought, "Yeah, but that's just name calling. What about the issues?" San Francisco had an annual event with comedy outdoors with dozens of comedians performing in Golden Gate Park. My wife and I were there and this one comic got up and said, "Isn't Ronald Reagan an asshole?" The audience cheers. He goes, "Oh? You like the political stuff, huh?" That became a running gag with my wife and me. "Oh, you like the political stuff, huh?"</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: It's not political satire just because you mention Nixon's name. </span></b></i><br />
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b></i>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: Right. Johnny Carson didn't mention any political stuff at all until Nixon. One time I was performing in New York. There were two FBI guys in the audience taking notes. I pointed them out and said, "Am I talking too fast for you guys? I don't want you to get writer's cramp." </span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: David Steinberg says he was heckled for several months whenever he did Nixon material. He later recognized the faces of his hecklers on TV during the Watergate hearings.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: A revelation, Kliph. Well, since I was publishing satire and wasn't breaking any laws, they couldn't bust me. My FBI file had a letter to the editor of Life magazine complaining about their favorable article on me. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">It was the New York office that wrote this poison pen letter. It wasn't on FBI stationary. It was a guy who called himself Howard Rassmussen, not his real name, from Brooklyn College, School of General Studies. It was skillful with details and verisimilitude. It said, "To call Krassner a social rebel is too cute. He is nothing but a raving, unconfined nut." My parents were horrified, but I thought it was funny and used it as the title of my autobiography.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Did you get the sense that Jerry Rubin was not earnest in his politics? Was he just a counterculture conformist who later turned into a Ronald Regan conformist?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: Well, it's like asking if Larry Flynt was a pornographer or did he truly believe in the First Amendment. But it's an excellent observation because you're right. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I think Kurt Vonnegut came up with this phrase. "You become what you pretend to be." Jerry Rubin had been a sports reporter in Cincinnati. When he came to Berkeley he would hang around and take notes, so they thought he was a spy. But a spy wouldn't be that blatant about it. That was his style. He wanted to understand. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He was one of the organizers of the first Teach-In on the Berkeley campus. This was during the Vietnam War. He called me to be an emcee. He also wanted me to put him in touch with Norman Mailer. I suggested Phil Ochs to sing between speakers. He hadn't heard of Phil Ochs, but he took him. And Ochs resonated with that audience. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">As a result of his Berkeley thing, Dave Dellinger, a peace activist on the East Coast, invited Jerry Rubin to organize the demonstrations at the Pentagon in October 1967. A friend of mine introduced Abbie to Jerry and that's how that clique began to form. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Abbie would say things like, "Kill your parents." Then Jerry would start using it. I objected to it even though I knew it was a metaphor like, "Oh, you're killin' me!" But I knew it would be taken literally by the public. He started using that and the National Inquirer put on the cover: "Yippie Jerry Rubin Advises Young People to Kill Parents." </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">There was jealousy from Abbie. He said, "We're all a united front" and then was pissed when Jerry got all the credit. Anyway, the point is that when Jerry became a [stock] marketer, people would criticize him. Abbie would defend him. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He said, "You can criticize him after you can lie down between the tracks going to Oakland," which was the route where they shipped soldiers from Oakland as they sent them off to Vietnam. He would do that. I would never lie between the tracks. If it wasn't genuine, then he certainly put on a good show.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: When I watch Jerry Rubin on something like the Phil Donahue Show, he is so obnoxious that it sorta sabotages the anti-war cause... making dissenters unsympathetic...</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: I agree. And it's why I couldn't get on <i>The Dick Cavett Show.</i> That's an excellent analysis. </span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You did mushrooms for your appearance on The Tomorrow Show with Tom Snyder. This doesn't seem like the ideal setting for a psilocybin trip... or maybe it is, I don't know...</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: That one started off on an awkward note. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">The mushrooms... it was heavy... I think it was 1978 and right after the Jonestown Kool-Aid thing. A week later Harvey Milk was killed. Tom Snyder's first question to me was, "You were in San Francisco. What the heck is going on there? First guys taking the Kool-Aid and then a guy shoots the mayor? What's going on there? What the heck is going on there?" </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I remember saying in a sing-songy voice, "Our city is more violent than your-orrrs!" He turned to his producer Andrew Friendly, </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Fred Friendly's son, </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">as if to say, "Why did you book this flake?" </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Then I said it might have been a CIA thing in Jonestown. There was a lot of suspicion about that. He said, "Oh, so you're paranoid, huh? You're paranoid." So, yeah. The mushrooms... it started in an uncomfortable spot. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">When I started to make him laugh, then it was okay. He was speaking and his laughter turned into Dan Aykroyd doing an impression of him! His laughter appeared visually to me like notes on a sheet of music, "HA ha HA ha HA ha ha ha ha HA." </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Abbie Hoffman was on the lam at the time and he told me he'd be somewhere watching. He had gone underground. He was a fugitive. At the end of the interview I said, "Today is Abbie Hoffman's birthday. He's watching somewhere." I looked in the camera, "Happy Birthday, Abbie." Tom Snyder said, "Do you think you could get him on the show?"</span></b><br />
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<br />Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2398796842887862508.post-66129752056103332762019-07-21T19:30:00.001-07:002019-07-23T10:40:38.191-07:00An Interview with Paul Krassner - Part Five<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: April 1964 - George Foster and Bob Booker, the guys who produced the First Family comedy record with Vaughn Meader, were going to make a movie starring Peter Sellers. It was called Pardon Me, Sir, but is My Arm Hurting Your Elbow. Arthur Hiller was slated to direct. They commissioned a series of scripts written by you, Terry Southern, Godfrey Cambridge, Jean Shephard, Peter Cook, Gregory Corso, Lawrence Ferlinghetti and Allen Ginsberg. Wow. </span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: Yeah, huh. I don't think they all agreed to do it, but they were all invited. I remember I did a script and it was a take-off on the Seven Deadly Sins. It was about the Book of Job and I applied it to hippies somehow. Bob Booker liked it, but I remember he said to me, "What were you smoking when you wrote that?" It was really offbeat. I don't think it was ever made, though.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Bob Booker and George Foster made a ton of comedy records. When You're in Love the Whole World is Jewish was probably their second most famous project after the First Family. They seem like old fashioned show business guys. Here they are enlisting every major counterculture celebrity.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: Yes, there was a lot of co-opting going on. A lot of magazines or TV shows tried to get the youth vote and a lot of the youth vote was stoned hippies. They were getting a lot of publicity. All the ones you just mentioned, mainstream circles were aware of. So they weren't really underground...</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: They were all celebrities in their field.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: They were celebrities in their field and had leaked into mainstream awareness. That's why the whole "sick comic" thing happened. It was started by Time Magazine. They included Lenny and Bob Newhart and Shelley Berman and Nichols and May and Jonathan Winters. Lenny very much resented being called sick. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Lenny talked about it. He said he was satirizing a society that was sick. The others didn't really belong in that. When I did the thing for Playboy, the Playboy Panel, we called them "hip humorists" rather than sick.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Bob Newhart refused to participate in your panel.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: Because he was a practicing Catholic and he was offended by Playboy. For one of the previous panels the topic was jazz and narcotics. I contacted Gerry Mulligan and he said, "Oh? Are they going to show my nipples?" He didn't want to participate either.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: One of the first pot smoking comedians was the Professor Irwin Corey.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: Yes, when I moved to San Francisco I opened for him at the Julia Morgan Theater in Berkeley. We were sitting in a dressing room. He kind of looked like my father. We smoked a joint together and it was strange because I felt like I was smoking a joint with my dad. He said that sometimes he would look at Nazi material in order to get real angry before he went on stage. He went to Cuba and brought medicine on a humanitarian thing and there was a photo I published of him with Fidel Castro.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Another elder statesmen whom you published in The Realist - from a completely different world than your own - the satirist Henry Morgan.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: Yes, Henry Morgan was an early subscriber. He had written some kind of letter to me that said, "Your publication makes me vomit."</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: (laughs)</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: "But I can't stop reading it." Something like that. I heard him on Jack Paar once and he was praising socialized medicine. Paar didn't pursue it, so I invited Morgan to do an article for <i>The Realist</i> on socialized medicine - and he did. Then I asked him for an interview and he said, "I'll do the interview as long as I don't have to see anybody." So, I just sent him questions by mail and he answered them. That was a feather in <i>The Realist</i> cap. I kept sending him issues. He had a caricature of himself on the stationary and I used that rather than a photograph.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You appeared on an episode of The Les Crane Show.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: Oh, sure. I remember he was very handsome and had I been gay, I would have gone for him. He loved <i>The Realist</i> and he had me on more than once. I was on his show with Jules Feiffer. Somebody called the show and said, "How come you have so many Jews on the show?" Les Crane said, "Well, that's anti-Semitic." I said, "I resent it even though I don't consider myself Jewish." He said, "What do you mean?" I said, "Well, I don't believe in God. To say I'm Jewish because my parents were, that's making religion a race and that's what Hitler did." Something like that. Les Crane pushed the panic button, it was on a delay. He said, "Paul, that's actionable!" There was always fear of libel suits and that was a common practice. Things would be bleeped out.</span></b><br />
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<i><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>Kliph Nesteroff: Sandy Baron told you that Lenny Bruce once ratted on his drug dealer?</b></span></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br />
Paul Krassner: That's what he said. Lenny never mentioned it in his act and he never admitted to having snitched, if it was true. It was Sandy Baron who told me that. He played Lenny on Broadway. I worked with Sandy on one of his albums. It was called How I Found God, Zen, and Yoga and My Life Still Sucks. I helped write it. He kept putting off paying me the five hundred dollars that he promised.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He and his wife were very much into <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erhard_Seminars_Training">EST and the Human Potential Movement</a>. He used EST language a lot. The thing I remember - at his home he had a book called the Physiology of Psychology. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I was reading it and it said itching is the highest form of pain or the lowest form of pain or something. I quoted that when I wrote about the first laugh I got from an audience. I was six years old playing violin at Carnegie Hall. I had an itch in my leg. I stood on my left leg and scratched it with my right foot without missing a note and the audience laughed. I wasn't trying to get a laugh, I was just trying to deal with my own personal little problem, but I learned in my guts what made people laugh. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">It was a very gratifying thing to have that power. If you could make people laugh, then they weren't mad at you. It woke me up. The buzz it gave you - I refer to it as a spiritual orgasm. It was an epiphany that I didn't quite understand. It was instinct. Rather than stop and put down my bow, I scratched with my leg. In the book Sandy Baron had in his home, there was a scientific explanation for it: The God of Absurdity. </span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: How about a guy a generation earlier than you who had a counterculture vibe before anyone else - Lord Buckley.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: I was familiar with him and was aware he influenced Lenny on some level. I never saw him perform in person. I had a radio job in San Francisco in 1971 at this experimental station and it was one of the reasons I moved from New York to San Francisco. I was going to bracket the weekend with four hours on Saturday morning and four hours on Sunday evening. I opened my Easter Sunday show with The Nazz by Lord Buckley. Lenny talked about Lord Buckley in terms of hip comedians who played to a jazz audience. He wasn't in the mainstream and he preceded Lenny in that department - and Lenny was well aware of that.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: December 1961. You were in Signs Along the Cynic Route, a revue at the Actor's Playhouse with Will Holton, Dolly Jonah, Barbara Siegel...</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: Oh, yes. Here's the backstory on that. In <i>The Realist</i> I had a section called Signs Along the Cynic Route. It was a simple play on words. I didn't consider myself a cynic, but I put the facts aside for a good pun. Will and Dolly. I have to describe them. Will was like prep student graduate with a wild mind. Dolly was a blustery, Broadway type, an obviously face-lifted blonde. They contacted me because they wanted to use the title for their play. They asked me to translate to stage what I did in print. If I did an editorial it could be a good monologue with a few changes. I agreed to do it. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Nelson Algren was staying with Will and Dolly at their home. They would go out and Algren would stay home. The phone rang and he took the messages. They told me they found five versions of the phone message crumpled up in the garbage (laughs). He was a novelist, so he chose words very carefully. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I felt very self-conscious with the two of them on this stage. I felt so awkward. They decided to do it without me and that was fine with me. Opening night they got awful, awful reviews. I remember hearing Dolly backstage going, "Those fucking cocksuckers!" It was a negative review.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You were interviewed on 60 Minutes for a piece about the underground press. Mike Wallace asked you what's the difference between the mainstream press and underground press. You said that Spiro Agnew's name could be rearranged to spell Grow a Penis. You could publish it in your paper, but 60 Minutes would edit it out. You also appeared on Mike Wallace's previous show PM East.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: I told him about the Spiro Agnew anagram and he laughed. But I was right. It was deleted. He was very friendly. He called me a rascal. The producer of <i>PM East</i> was Jerry Hopkins who became the talent scout for Steve Allen's show. He got me on <i>PM East</i>. </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">During the <i>60 Minutes</i> interview, he asked me why I used these four letter words. I said, "Which words are those, Mike?" He liked fencing. There was a playful relationship and he was not hostile at all.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: Now, there is this notorious story of yours about doing LSD with Groucho Marx and acting as his guide. I want to read a message to you from a fella named Steve Stoliar who worked as a secretary in Groucho's house in the 1970s. He was a young college-aged guy and sympathetic to the youth movement, but also got to know Groucho in his twilight years. He says, "Here is my opinion, which is all that it is. I have read Paul Krassner's story and I have no reason to believe Paul Krassner is a liar. Nevertheless, I find it extremely difficult to believe. Groucho had contempt for the recreational drug culture of the sixties. He rarely drank and was adverse to taking anything that would impact his control over himself. The only meds he took were those his doctor told him he had to take. Couple that with the terrible reputation LSD had with the older generation - it's hard for me to believe Groucho would say, 'What the hell, let's try the stuff and see what happens.' I can not confirm the story, I can not refute the story, but I am skeptical of its veracity."</i></span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: Well, that was the reason Groucho asked <i>me</i>. He read <i>The Realist</i> and read about my taking trips. He asked me if I could get him some. He was <i>aware </i>of it. I have a letter in my garage from Lionel Olay, a very popular magazine writer. He had interviewed Groucho and Groucho had said that he was very curious about LSD. When Groucho spoke to me he didn't use the word "guide," he asked if I could "accompany" him.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I can appreciate Steve's take. He's being very fair. Groucho was not going to go around boasting about this. It was to prepare for the movie <i>Skidoo</i>, which was essentially a pro-acid movie directed by Otto Preminger. He had been given LSD by Timothy Leary. Leary loved to turn celebrities on with acid. That was before the movie. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Leary said, "I'm disappointed. Preminger is more hip than I am." So, Groucho's motivation was <i>because </i>of the negative reputation. Groucho wasn't the first choice to play the part of God in <i>Skidoo</i>. They wanted George Raft for the part and I forget why he didn't do it. I met Bill Marx, Harpo's son, and we talked about how Chico carried a little pouch around...</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Marijuana.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: Yes and they called it the Grouch Bag. Groucho liked it when counterculture people said they trusted their friends more than the government. So there were aspects of the counterculture that he liked. He was curious about it. I told him a story about Haight-Ashbury when they had tour busses. All the passengers in the tour had cameras and they were taking pictures of hippies. So the hippies got cameras and started taking pictures of <i>them</i>. I told Groucho that story and he loved it. He also wanted to know if I ever had a threesome. He wasn't interested in rock and roll, but he <i>was </i>interested in sex.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: When Groucho did LSD, you babysat him - but you didn't actually do it with him.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: No, no, we both did it. I accompanied him on his trip. It was Owsley acid. Little white pills. Three hundred micrograms. We were very brand name conscious in those days.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Where did you guys do it?</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: It was the home of an actress. I forget her name, but it was in Beverly Hills. I don't even know if I knew her name. </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Phil Ochs drove me there.</span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"> She had a collection of records from Broadway shows. Phil told me she was in some musical revues, but I don't remember if he told me her name or not. </span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Had you met Groucho previously?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: My publisher was Putnam and Bill Targ was my editor. He was friends with Groucho. Later he sent him my book and Groucho gave it a blurb. He said I would be the last living Lenny Bruce. When I was in Los Angeles the writer of <i>Skidoo</i>, Bill Cannon, invited me to his house. We started to write a movie together, but it never worked out. He was the one who introduced me to Groucho. Groucho and I had lunch and that was the first time I met him. That's when we first discussed it. The second time was when I met him for the acid trip.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Did you stay in contact afterward?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Paul Krassner: No, but I would send him <i>The Realist</i>. David Hilliard from the Black Panthers said he wanted to kill Richard Nixon. He was charged with threatening the president. There was an interview with Groucho in <i>Flash </i>magazine where he said something like, "The only thing that will help this country is the assassination of Richard Nixon." I wrote to the attorney general and asked why he wasn't citing Groucho for the same thing as the Black Panthers. They sent me a reply! </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">James Browning, then the Attorney General of California, wrote to me saying he consulted his colleagues and they agreed that the Black Panthers wanted to destroy the government, but Groucho was "an alleged comedian." Those are the exact words he used. He said there was no file on Groucho and then I found out there was <i>indeed</i> a file on Groucho. He was on their shit list. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I wrote Groucho and told him about it. He said, "I deny it and I deny that I deny it!" Something like that. I saw him again at a book festival at the Ambassador Hotel before they started doing it at USC. He did a Q&A, but he was frail and responding with just one or two words. That was the last time I saw him.</span></b><br />
<br />Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2398796842887862508.post-58402910061066297872018-11-29T12:11:00.006-08:002021-01-09T22:04:54.734-08:00An Interview with Saul Turteltaub<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: I had met Shari Lewis at a summer camp when I was fifteen. Around ten years later, when I got out of the army, </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I was writing for nightclub comics. </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I turned on the television and there she was singing to a sock. A talking sock. I called her up, "Hi, I see you're doing this and I'm a writer." She said, "I don't need a writer, but if you want to talk to my writer about how to get started - go ahead." So I had lunch with her writer, Lan O'Kun. Out of gratitude to them I wrote a sketch for her and the talking sock. The next day she called and hired me for the show.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Who were the nightclub comedians you wrote for?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: Well, the first one I sold to was a team called Allen and DeWood in 1953. Mitch DeWood left and then it became Allen and Rossi. Have you heard of them?</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Yes.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: Yeah, so it was Allen and DeWood. That was 1953. I had a partner then and we both went to law school together. He decided to stay with law and I decided to go with writing and we both succeeded.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: What were Allen and DeWood like?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: It was fun. It was a first job and we were in showbiz going to nightclubs. It was an exciting thing for me. Marty Allen was very talented. He'd been a professional dancer. You wouldn't think it from looking at him, but he was a dancer. He teamed with Mitch and they did fairly well. They played the Latin Quarter in New York and the top hotels in the Catskills, but they broke up because they couldn't stand each other.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Who were the other nightclub comics you wrote for?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: <a href="http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2012/02/the-mob-the-comedians.html">Names you probably don't know. Allan Drake</a>.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Sure, yeah.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: Allan Drake and then there were one or two others. Catskill guys who never made it big.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Allan Drake had a horrible thing...</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: Yeah, his wife was killed. That's what you're talking about, right?</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Yeah, she was murdered by the Mob.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: Yeah, not that she had done anything wrong other than sitting in a car with the wrong guy. The week after that happened I was walking down 48th Street and I bumped into Allan Drake.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I was talking and I was trying to get on the other side of him because my back was to the street! I didn't need to be killed! I hired Allan years later when Bernie Orenstein and I were producing <i>Sanford and Son</i>. We had a situation where Fred Sanford's sister married a white guy and we hired Allan Drake to play him.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Sol Weinstein also wrote for Allan Drake and he told me he was selling cocaine to Redd Foxx.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: For what it's worth, I don't know anything about a drug habit with Allan Drake. There was nothing wrong with him. He was sweet. Kind of a hard guy, but sweet and charming. As far as Redd and his drugs, I was with him for three years and I never saw him doing any drugs at all. The other comic who I wrote for, I just remembered, was Archie Robbins.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Right, didn't he do impressions?</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: Well, he didn't make one on me.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Did you encounter the Mob when you worked for nightclub comedians?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: I heard about it like everybody else, that the Mob ran this and that. Evidently they <i>did</i>, but I never worried about it.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: <a href="https://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2011/10/the-schleppers.html">How about Hanson's Drugstore? </a></i><i><a href="https://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2011/10/the-schleppers.html">Many comedians hung out at Hanson's Drugstore in New York and many comedy writers would come there to pitch jokes to comics</a>.</i></span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: Yeah, I went through there. My future wife was working in the building upstairs. She worked for a booker named Jack Siegel. He booked club dates in the Catskills and all around. She was the worker in the office and so she knew all those people. I didn't even know that until after we got married many years later.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I had come to see her boss about getting a job as a social director. I didn't get a job from him, but I did get a social director job later from Henry Tobias. Henry Tobias and this guy named Goldstein were the deans of the social directors in the Catskills. But yes, I used to go into Hanson's because that's where the comics hung out. You'd try to sell them something if you had a joke. Selling a joke meant - yeah - they'll buy it and no - you'll never get paid.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Comedy writer Jay Burton sued <a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2011/05/interview-with-marty-allen-part-two.html">Marty Allen</a> for non-payment at one point.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: Oh, did he? I knew Jay very well, but I didn't know that. When I wrote for him my name was Stan Taylor. Henry Tobias, the social director at Totem Lodge where I was doing this act, said to me, "You've got to change your name. I'm getting more laughs introducing you than you are with your act." I was doing an act with Lenny Koropkin and we changed out names to Taylor and Corbett. I was Stan Taylor when I met Marty Allen and he still calls me Stan.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You wrote for Shari Lewis for quite a while.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: I wrote for Shari Lewis forever. I started writing her show in 1958, when it was a local show. After a year and a half we sold the network show. It ran from 1960 to 1963. Then the show went off. I ended up writing a million shows since, but whenever she needed anything she would call me and I would always do it for scale. </span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: The show won a Peabody Award in 1961, which is pretty impressive.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: Yeah, it was exciting and nice to have. She was a terrific girl.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You wrote on That Was The Week That Was. Vastly different from Shari Lewis.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: Yes, it was a grown up show. <i>That Was the Week That Was</i> was a satirical look at the world's events as they happened. It started in England and was very successful. It came over here and was slightly successful, but it could have been much better if it had a better producing team.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">It ran for two seasons. I only did it one year. Between writing and producing I did thirty-eight different series over the course of my career. The first was the local series with Shari. It was called <i>Hi Mom</i>. It was like a little talk show with comedy. Josie McCarthy did cooking and Nurse Jane talked about baby rash. The next show was <i>Candid Camera</i>. I went from Shari to <i>Candid Camera </i>and did that for about thirteen weeks and got offered <i>That Was The Week That Was</i> in 1964.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Who were some of the other writers working at Candid Camera?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: There was a guy named Jim McGee. The producer was Bob Shanks, a lovely, lovely man. Allen Funt was the super producer. When I left I recommended Bernie Orenstein. He was a guy I met at a party when I was moving here from Canada. Bernie got my job and about four years later we teamed up to produce <i>The Beautiful Phyllis Diller Show</i>.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Going back to That Was the Week That Was. You mentioned, "If they had a better production staff..." What do you remember about Leland Hayward?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: That's what I mean. Leland Hayward was a terrific guy and I liked him a lot, but he really didn't know from this kind of comedy. Leland came from Broadway and he brought the show over from England, but they just didn't seem to do the right kind of stuff. They had a great staff of writers, but the stuff they went with wasn't as good as it could have been. One of the writers was Gerry Gardner and he had written a book called <i>Who's in Charge Here?</i> It was a book of news photographs that he put funny captions on. It was a best seller.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Bob Emmett was a writer. Tom Meehan who wrote <i>Annie</i> was one of the writers. Tony Webster who was one of the great comedy writers from <i>Your Show of Shows </i>was on the show. That's a good enough staff.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b></div>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: It was a great assemblage of comedy talent, and yet it did not succeed.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: When I left, Herb Sargent came in to write. He had worked on Steve Allen. They had basically the same writers without me, but it just never got funny enough. I don't know what they were looking for, but it wasn't good comedy. You know who else was writing that first year? Although I never saw him - Goodman Ace. He was considered the daddy of all television comedy writers.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: The dean.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: Yes, the dean. I personally didn't see it. You are right about the cast. It had Alan Alda, Henry Morgan, Nancy Ames, Pat Englund, David Frost.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: And appearances from Steve Allen, Mort Sahl, Dick Gregory, Woody Allen... Was there any kind of struggle trying to get satire on network TV?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: No, it was just bad decisions made by the producer and the director. All I know is it just wasn't good enough. That's a shame. <i>Saturday Night Live</i> picked up on it and did it correctly years later.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You left voluntarily?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: Basically. I had a week to week contract. I was put on for thirteen weeks. If they picked me up for the next thirteen they would raise me a hundred extra dollars. When it came time they said, "Well, we'll pick you up for the next thirteen, but we're not going to give you the increase." I said, "That's not right. That's the deal we made." "Yeah, well, we changed our mind." I went to Leland Hayward and said, "Leland, somebody insulted you. I heard there was a writer on this show who was promised an extra hundred dollars and they won't give it to him. Everyone is saying Leland Hayward is a cheapskate." He said, "Who said that?" I said, "Me."</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">So he told the business guy. He was Jack Lord's brother. I forget his name. He told him, "Give him the hundred a week." So he gave me the hundred and he said, "Okay, you got your hundred but you're not guaranteed the thirteen weeks. Now you're working week to week." According to the Writers Guild, if you have week to week you can take another job. So I did. There was a show called <i>On Broadway Tonight</i> with Rudy Vallee. Irving Mansfield was the producer. He hired me to write that show. When Leland heard about it, he felt like he was backstabbed by the kid who got an extra hundred dollars. So that was the end.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: On Broadway Tonight's premise was that it was a new talent thing, like an amateur talent discovery...</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: Yes, but it wasn't really amateur talent. Rudy Vallee was the emcee. He had been a star in the thirties and forties and then had a comeback on Broadway with <i>How to Succeed in Business</i>. Irving hired him. He would introduce new talent and at the end of the show would bring on his or her favorite young talent. So here's who these new acts were - and to this day I enjoy thinking that I wrote their very first TV spots - Rodney Dangerfield...</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Wow.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: Richard Pryor...</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: (silence)</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><br /></i>
Saul Turteltaub: (silence) Richard Pryor doesn't get a wow?</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b></div>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Well, I already knew that was Richard Pryor's TV debut.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: The big stars that brought people on were Ethel Merman and Judy Garland and people of that stature. So I really had a good time meeting these people.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: What do you remember of the young Richard Pryor?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: Sweet kid. He was fun. He had a little routine and I gave him a couple of jokes and he was sweet at hell. That was 1964 and when I met him again in 1967 in Los Angeles, I was writing <a href="http://oldshowbiz.tumblr.com/post/179921879389/pat-boones-forgotten-talk-show-was-a-replacement">the Pat Boone talk show</a> and he was guest on it. It was like old friends meeting, but he wasn't a big star yet.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: How about dealing with Rudy Vallee?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: Rudy Vallee was a strange guy. I wrote something like, "And now here are the people who..." And Rudy said, "It's not people - it's persons! You don't say people, you say persons!" So <a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2012/03/interview-with-marilyn-michaels.html">Marilyn Michaels </a>came on. She was doing an impression of Barbra Streisand, and I wrote as a joke, "And now here is Marilyn Michaels to sing <i>Persons who need Persons."</i> The girls typed it up and it went to cue cards like that and he read it like that! When the show was canceled, Rudy blamed <i>me</i>. </span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You also wrote a little for the Hollywood Palace.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: No, that was my writing partner Bernie Orenstein. He wrote for the <i>Hollywood Palace</i>. <a href="http://oldshowbiz.tumblr.com/tagged/Les-Crane">We were both writing at different times for Les Crane in New York</a> and then Nick Vanoff took over the show and moved it to California. It wasn't called <i>The Les Crane Show</i>, it was called <i>Nightlife</i> or something like that. Bernie came to California with Les Crane. That show went off the air, but Nick Vanoff started the Hollywood Palace and Bernie stayed with him. Nick produced it <a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2012/04/interview-with-william-o-harbach-part.html">with Bill Harbach</a>.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: What was Les Crane like to work with?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: He was a nice guy. That's about all I can tell you. My job was to interview the people who were coming on the show and try to come up with a comedy remark that Les could say. I did that for thirteen weeks and that was okay. He was nice enough. It turns out he was a genius. When the show was canceled he was out of a job and he came up with a computer game way back then. That was about 1966-1967. It might have been computer chess or whatever. It was a big success and he became very wealthy because of that.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: His TV show was known for controversy. It was sort of manufactured to be controversial.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><br /></i></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">
Saul Turteltaub: Yeah, we had William Buckley on with Norman Mailer. Muhammad Ali was on the show. I bumped into Howard Cosell in the dressing room. I was introduced as the writer and he said in that Howard Cosell voice, "I'm the only one who can talk to Muhammad Ali." I said, "I know, Howard, you're wonderful, but on this show the host talks to the guests." "I'm the one who talks to Muhammad Ali." I said, "Fine, go talk to him."</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You wrote for The Beautiful Phyllis Diller Show, which had on its writing staff, before anybody knew him, Lorne Michaels.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: Yeah, Lorne Michaels. He had a partner named Hartley Pomerantz. They came down from Canada. When we were staffing the show, Phyllis gave us a pile of jokes that different writers had sent her. We went through them and there was one written by Michaels and Pomerantz: ‘I was driving through the Catskill Mountains. I knew I was in a small town when I saw a sign that said, Sam’s Hospital . . . and Grill.’ We hired them on that joke alone. When the show was canceled, I called George Schlatter and I said, "I have a couple of guys here you might enjoy." I sent them over and he hired them for <i>Laugh-In</i>. To this day I don't think Lorne knows I made that call.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: What about the experience of doing The Beautiful Phyllis Diller Show...</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: It was wonderful. It was the first producing job Bernie Orenstein and I ever had. We had only been writing up until then. We made a terrible mistake on that show. We hired a director who was well-known but had been banned by NBC. God knows why. We stuck up for him for no good reason.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">We hired him and it was his idea to have these stands for the audience to sit in and they would move around on air pressure from one part of the set to another. It cost us an hour every taping, which was terrible. And his concept was, rather than having people walking from the dark into the spotlight, to start at the spotlight and walk into the dark. Like idiots, we said okay. Production wise it was bad. Then we had a spot on the show where Phyllis would just sit and talk to somebody like a talk show, which was mistake.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Bernie and I agreed to all these ideas that really weren't t good. We agreed with them because we were new. We had a superior on that show, an executive producer named Bob Finkel, who was wonderful. He had produced Perry Como and Andy Williams and a lot of great variety shows.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He just let us do what we wanted, but we didn't do well at all. We hired Norm Crosby to be the announcer. He was famous for his malapropisms. We hired Rip Taylor. He played her stereotypical gay hairdresser. It was all funny comedy people and the sketches were good, but all that extra time consuming boring stuff was awful and that was my fault as much as anyone.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: It was also up against Mission Impossible in the time slot.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: It <i>was</i> a mission impossible. The first show got a thirty-four share and people wanted to see her, but they just disappeared.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: That first episode had Johnny Carson, Sonny and Cher, and Rowan and Martin as guests. Do you remember anything else about the young Lorne Michaels?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: No, he was just another young writer and he was good. We were friendly. I've only talked to him once since that show. I called him in New York when I was doing <i>Sanford and Son</i> around 1975. I called him to get some friends hired at <i>Saturday Night Live</i> and that was that.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: An old Jack Benny writer worked on that show - George Balzer.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: George Balzer. Well, we had a couple Jack Benny writers. Hal Goldman and Al Goodman were Jack Benny writers and they were on our show. Keith Fowler, I think, also had worked with Jack. All good writers, all nice people.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You wrote a Mama Cass special for Chuck Barris featuring the crazy combo of Buddy Hackett and Joni Mitchell.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: And Martin Landau and Judy Collins.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: A strange amalgamation.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: It sure was (laughs). We produced that special, Bernie and I. We weren't part of that Mama Cass generation, but Bernie knew them. He was always familiar with the young music and I wasn't. I knew who Joni Mitchell was, but I wasn't really familiar with the genre. I said, "And we'll bring in Buddy Hackett and Barbara Bain and Martin Landau..." But it was a mistake.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You had young writers on that show like Carl Gottlieb.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: Yes, Carl Gottlieb who became very active in the Writers Guild - and still is. There were good writers on that special. The one who died was the youngest of them all.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Christopher Ross.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: Chris Ross. That's the guy.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: He and Carl Gottlieb were both been in the sketch troupe The Committee. You were also writing things for Stanley Myron Handelman?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: I wrote a pilot for Stanley Myron Handelman and it was a good one. I think we made him a dentist. It didn't sell, but it was funny and he was very bright, and very Catskilly. I forgot about that pilot.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You also did these Super Comedy Bowl specials...</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: That was a cute idea <a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2011/03/interview-with-bill-persky.html">we produced for Persky and Denoff</a>. We had the assignment and they turned it over to us to produce. That was fun. For two years we used all the big stars from the NFL who weren't playing in the Super Bowl the following Sunday. That show was sold initially by John Wayne's son - Pat Wayne. The network said they'd put it on if we got five A-list players and got John Wayne to do it. We had Carol Burnett and Lucille Ball and George C. Scott. I think Paul Newman. All the big stars agreed and all the stars from the football teams.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: One of them had J<a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2015/01/an-interview-with-art-metrano.html">ohn Wayne with Art Metrano doing a thing together</a>.</i><i> You produced The New Dick Van Dyke Show. Was that a success or a failure?</i></span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: It ran four years. Two years with us and then we didn't want to be in Arizona anymore. I think they did another year there and then they moved back to California with other producers and a whole other format.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">It was not a big success because it wasn't the first show. He wasn't Rob Petrie anymore. <a href="http://oldshowbiz.tumblr.com/post/175525862578/cbs-censors-the-new-dick-van-dyke-show-1974">He played a talk show host in Phoenix. Carl Reiner hired the cast</a>. He had Hope Lange playing his wife and Marty Brill was in it. They were all good performers, but I guess the scripts weren't good enough, and I'll take the blame for that.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: The reason I ask if it was a success or failure is because it seems to have been a failure and yet it stayed on the air.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: Yeah, it was on for four years.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: How about this oddly named show you worked on called This Week in Nemtin?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: I have a friend... well, you know him - he's the reason you called me - Ron Clark. While we were doing the Van Dyke show in Phoenix, Ron and Sheila Clark came out to visit. We were sitting around at the house kibitzing and he mentioned his friend Steve Nemtin. I said, "Nemtin sounds like a country." We started kibizting about Nemtim and made jokes about Nemtim that were like Polish jokes. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">We thought it might be a good idea for a show so we went to Alan Wagner who was programming at CBS under Fred Silverman and he loved the idea. I <a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2018/09/an-interview-with-sam-bobrick-part-one.html">wrote it with Sam Bobrick</a> and Bernie Orenstein. Everyone in town read the script and wanted to be in it. Carl Reiner played the wise old Nemtin who sits at the top of the hill in a robe. He sits on the hill answering the questions. We had the Nemtin drill team, which was Barry Levinson, Rudy DeLuca and whatshis name the tall guy...</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Craig T. Nelson.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: Craig Nelson, my God, how you knew that... You're very good. They put the pilot on the air in the summer. Well, it <i>sold. </i>Alan Wagner and Oscar Katz and the whole gang at CBS bought it. Freddie came back from his honeymoon and said, "No, I don't want it. I want to put on a different show called <i>Me and the Chimp</i>." The <i>me</i> part was great. Me was Ted Bessell, but the chimp was a bad actor and the show stunk. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">That was in 1972. Five years ago I bumped into Freddie and he said, "Geez, that show was the biggest mistake I ever made." I said, "A little late, Freddie." After he had been successful with his own company he said, "You still got the script for <i>This Week in Nemtin</i>?" I said, "We got the script, we got a copy of the pilot, we got everything." He said, "I think we can sell it." We formed a company and shopped it around, but nobody wanted it.</span></b><br />
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b></i>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Ed Asner was on it.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: Yes, Ed Asner, McLean Stevenson, Marcia Wallace, Carl Reiner.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Jack Eagle.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: Yes, Jack Eagle was a friend of Ron Clark's. </span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: When did you first meet Redd Foxx?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: It was in 1974 when we were hired to do the show. He was in Mexico on a vacation. We were writing a bunch of scripts waiting for him to come back and then he announced he wasn't going to return unless he got a raise. It was the second year in a row that he did that. Norman Lear gave him a huge, huge raise the first year. Lear said no and Redd said then he wouldn't come back. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Norman Lear called us, "It's up to you. NBC says they'll put it on without him. It's up to you. Should we cancel it?" I said, "Are you kidding?" To me it was money. I would have done it if Hitler came back! It was a job! Of course, we'll do it. So we wrote three scripts and shot three shows without him before we went on the air. He realized he was losing the battle so he came back - really pissed. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">He had fired the previous producer, Aaron Ruben. Nobody knows why. There was no one sweeter and nicer in show business than Aaron Ruben, a great writer and producer. Who knows what he did to piss off Redd. One of the stagehands thinks he walked in wearing a sweater that <a href="http://oldshowbiz.tumblr.com/post/35691416116/redd-foxx-and-his-brother">reminded Redd of his brother</a>. God knows. So now we figure he's going to come into the studio and say, "Get the fuck out. You produced three shows without me? Go to hell."</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">However, stroke of luck, he got on the plane to come back and on the flight were Steve Lawrence and Eydie Gorme. Eydie, when she was doing a single, had broken the color line at a lot of nightclubs by insisting Redd be her opening act. So he was grateful to her and loved her. He sat next to her on the plane and she said, "Oh, you're so lucky! My best friend is going to be your producer! Saul Turteltaub!" Because of her he gave us a chance and that made it easy. He came in, wasn't wonderfully friendly, but professional. By the third show we were <i>really </i>friendly. We had three years with him and it was wonderful.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: It's nice to hear that because so many stories are the opposite.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: The truth is that he was very professional. The good thing about doing that show is that we taped it Friday night. We did a show at six and one at eight-thirty, but we had to be out by 9:30 because he had to take a plane to Vegas. So we had to be done, which was wonderful, otherwise you have to work till two in the morning. But he had all kinds of illness - he had a bad throat, he had stomach, he had a bad knee. I used to take him to the doctor or I'd bring the doctors to him and that kept us close.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: And how about Demond Wilson? He also had a less than splendid reputation.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: To work with he was fine. As a person, he was a piece of shit. That's about it. He was just not a nice human being. I understand later he became a preacher so maybe he had a change of heart.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Or maybe he's a piece of shit preacher.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: (laughs) Yeah.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You worked with Richard Pryor, Rodney Dangerfield, and Lorne Michaels before any of them were famous. And then in 1981 you did this sitcom - One of the Boys.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: <i>One of the Boys. </i>Another mistake. Mickey Rooney was the grandfather whose son and daughter put him in a home. His grandson was played by Dana Carvey. He was an unknown. The grandson takes him out of his home and brings him to live in his college dorm with his roommate. The roommate was played by Nathan Lane, who was also an unknown at the time. The pilot was wonderful. Then we went to series and decided to bring in Scatman Crothers as the buddy. Scatman was wonderful. He was a good actor and a nice man, but the show went from being about a couple of college kids to being about two old men and it was just awful.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: What do you remember about the young Dana Carvey?</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saul Turteltaub: He was terrific. He had won the San Francisco Comedy Competition. My wife had seen him up there and he was funny and a great impressionist. He was charming. We went to New York looking for the other college kid. Fred Silverman sent Nathan Lane to read for us. We hired both of them. Dana had at least done stand-up. Nathan had not done much at all, but he had a great talent. Mickey Rooney looked at Nathan Lane and said, "That kid is going to be a star!"</span></b><br />
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<br />Unknownnoreply@blogger.com9tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2398796842887862508.post-15079638005093144922018-10-10T12:17:00.004-07:002019-08-04T13:43:44.902-07:00An Interview with William Schallert - Part Two<div class="p4">
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William Schallert: It was around 1950 when I was sent to MGM along with a bunch of other actors. Leonard Murphy was the guy in casting. I’d worked for MGM in a couple of minor parts, real one-day-wonders, but that's the way I got started in the business. I think my father’s name helped. He was a well-known newspaper columnist and they sort of thought, "Well, it couldn’t hurt to have Edward Schallert’s son in here. His father will be reviewing the picture."</span></b></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>I was called out there along with some other people. And there were about ten of us who were sitting around on an empty sound stage and grey benches. We were hunkered down on those and in came John Huston and his entourage. He had a guy working with him named Albert Band who I worked for later when he was directing at the Ivar. He was the son of a famous German painter.</b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>Albert was like an apprentice with John Huston.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>The same thing happened with Alan J. Pakula. He was an apprentice with a guy at Paramount. It was the kind of thing that directors would do sometimes. They would take someone under their wing and have them do the gofer stuff, but very often they would also contribute to the script. Anyway, we were all sitting around on these benches when in comes Huston and his entourage. He looked at us and asked a couple of questions and none of us said anything as none of us had read the script. We didn’t know what the film was or anything. He looked us over and then he left. A little while later Leonard came to us and he said "All right boys and girls!" That’s what they used to call people who had small parts...</b></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">"All right, boys and girls, you can go now." I didn’t think anything would come of it, but they called a little while later and I was cast. It was called <i>The Red Badge of Courage</i>. I got six weeks of work out of it. That was very handy because my wife and I had just had a baby. Working with Huston - it was marvelous. It was as though Mathew Brady had a motion picture camera and he was shooting the Civil War stuff again. Huston had a wonderful eye for all of that.</span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">The picture did not do well at the box office. They added narration by James Whitmore. He was a hell of a good actor, but he sounded amateurish when he did this narration. I thought the narration finished any chance this picture had. But by that time Huston no longer had any control over it.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: Right, yeah he griped about that. In fact it was the basis for a famous book called Picture.</b></i></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Lillian Ross.</b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: Lillian Ross, yeah.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></i></span><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1">William Schallert: She also wrote about Charlie Chaplin and The Circle Theatre. She did a piece about Chaplin for the New Yorker. It</span> was based on his stepping in and directing <i>What Every Woman Knows</i>, a J.M. Barrie play. I had started directing it, but Chaplin stepped in and, uh, "fixed it."</span></b></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: (laughs)</b></i></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: (laughs) He said, "No no no! This is a very gentle comedy you can’t do slapstick!" I had done something of which Chaplin didn’t approve. But anyway, he did a marvelous job with it and it was a very good production. I was in it as an actor too so it was alright.</b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: You also were in a T.S. Elliot play around that same time with Vincent Price called The Cocktail Party.</b></i></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> Y</span>eah.</b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: It also involved two other people who are still alive - Marsha Hunt and Norman Lloyd.</b></i></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1">William Schallert: Right. Well, Norman was the reason I was in that. He had directed a production of it with Patricia Neal. When I was in rehab for my legs two years ago, she was there too. She remembered me and she wanted to talk to me. She said “Do you remember that fella I was going with at the time?” I said, “Oh yeah. I’ve never forgotten that." It was</span> Gary Cooper.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>She had an affair with him from when they were working on that picture... Ayn Rand… something...</span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1">William Schallert: Yeah, that’s it. So she saw me and she said "You remember the fella that I was going with then?" Or she made some reference to it and I said "I’ll never forget it." There's a photo of the two of them and she had a look on her face like,</span> 'God, would you grow up?'<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>And he didn’t. You know, he stayed with his wife while having this affair. In the meanwhile it was heartbreaking for Patricia. She really had a tough time because of that. But at the very end of her life, she and I were in this rehab center together. And then I think she passed away after I left.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: And you mention that Norman Lloyd was the reason you were in the play.</b></i></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Yeah, Norman used to come to The Circle Theater and he encouraged us to do this play. For a while we operated three theaters and in one of them we were doing a production of a play by what's his name. One of the French guys…</b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: No, no, it was a modern day French playwright like… I’m sorry, I’m drawing a blank on it.</b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: No. In any event, Norman was casting this and he decided that I should be in it. I read for it and I was doing absolutely the wrong thing. I was taking it dead serious and it’s actually quite an elegant comedy with an overtone of mysticism. It works well on the stage. We had a wonderful cast. </b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>Harry Ellerbe was in it. He had played with Nazimova on Broadway in <i>Ghosts</i> by Ibsen. Rose Hobart was in it. She was blacklisted and wasn’t working much. And Reginald Denny - who was just wonderful to work with. I had a good time with him. He took me under his wing when we were on the road up in San Francisco. </b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>He was very much like his character. Reginald had been in India with the British troops and like the character in the play he was quite a cook. He taught me how to make Kedgeree, which was a very good Indian dish. And we had a wonderful actress, older actress named Estelle Winwood. She was described as the woman with fried egg eyes.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>It was just the way she looked with these kind of droopy eyes. She was famous for being in the original productions of George Bernard Shaw in England. She was quite well known, a good reputation. And it was a thrill working with somebody like that. She came into the production when we re-did it. They went on the road with it. We did the original with Patricia Neal at the La Jolla Playhouse. That was when Norman Lloyd directed me and I wasn’t very good. I hadn’t got hold of the part yet. </b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>The road version was produced by Lewis and Young. They did mainly musical theater up in Sacramento. And they were going to produce this roadshow of <i>The Cocktail Party</i> and they were obligated by Actors Equity to offer it to the La Jolla cast first because they created the parts. Otherwise they wouldn’t have cast me - I don’t think. But they did because they had to. </b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: I played it in San Francisco for four weeks. And then in Los Angeles at the Biltmore. We’d been playing in San Francisco at The Curran, which was a lovely red velvet theater that had a permanent orchestra. They'd play before the production each night. It was not a musical, but it had accompaniment. It was lovely stuff. It gave you the feeling of being in a very elegant production. The Biltmore was downtown at Fifth and Hope. It was a very dark theater, and Estelle Winwood said after the opening night, "Oh Darling, it was like playing to an empty swimming pool!" <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>That really summed it up because we bombed. We’d been getting a nice response from the audience up in San Francisco but down here on opening night it was a catastrophe. Eventually I got out of it. They went on a tour around the country and Vincent Price went with it.</b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: That same year you were in another project with Norman Lloyd. You did the American remake of Fritz Lang’s M with Martin Gabel and Norman Lloyd. It's a real lurid film noir and the last picture made by Joseph Losey before he was blacklisted. </b></i></span><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1">William Schallert: Yeah, I had a very small part, that’s the main thing I remember. I don’t recall very much about it, I’m sorry. I’m familiar with the original picture, of course, b</span>ut I don’t know. I played a clerk of some kind in a law office.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: You're in a film directed by Don Weis in 1951 called Banner Line. It starred a guy named Keefe Brasselle. In real life he was connected to the mafia. Do you remember anything about Keefe Brasselle?<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></i></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Nope. I worked with Spencer Tracy when I was doing some of these one day parts for MGM, but I don’t really member that. I know I played an ambulance attendant. I had maybe one or two lines. I didn’t actually work with him.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: Going through your filmography you are frequently credited as Clerk or Man or Man Behind Desk or Clerk Behind Desk...</b></i></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Right, right, right, well, those are the anonymous parts that you play when you’re starting out in the business. I did some live television for Buzz Kulik and he liked me and cast me on the <i>Lux Television Theater</i>. And I was very good in the first one. And I was okay in the second one, but I should have been playing the lead. They didn’t think I was leading man material.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>So that defined me. I was definitely stuck in the character actor bit. </b></span><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: You were i</i></span><i>n the remake of the Jazz Singer with Danny Thomas. It was directed by the legendary Michael Curtiz.</i></span></b><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Yes, I remember how I got it. My agent was a guy named Leon Lance and he knew all kinds of people in town. Leon was, I don’t know, he was probably not a top-ranked agent or anything like that, but he handled a lot of people including James Arness. He represented people who made it big and then they would leave him. And so he was always being left and finally he gave up representing actors and would only represent writers because they were more faithful. But Leon got me in to see Mike Curtiz. I did a screen test with that wonderful singer - Peggy Lee. She was very fun and thanked me for doing it. I played a stage manager.</b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>All I did was come in and say "Okay, boys and girls, let’s get ready for the play!" You can’t do much with that. You just have to know your lines and show up on time. When I first started I was very bad about being on time and I had some problems with that at Republic Pictures. Eventually I bought my way out of a contract with them. I said, "I know I'm supposed to be under contract here, but I can't live on the money that you’re offering." I wasn't working that much. I decided there was no hope for me at Republic, so I got out of that.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: One step down from Republic was Monogram. You did a movie at Monogram called Flat Top with Sterling Hayden. Monogram Studios was the cheapest of them all.</b></i></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Yeah, and they changed their name to Allied Artists. Yeah, I don’t know. That was definitely a cheap picture. My wife thought I was terrible in it.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>I was in a very good picture for Don Siegel at Allied Artists called <i>Riot in Cellblock 11. </i>It was actually pretty good.</b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Sure, all of Don Siegel's B-movies are excellent.</b></i></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: I played a newsman in that one. I worked for Don a couple of times later on. The best thing I did with him was <i>Charley Varrick</i>.</b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: Sure, Walter Matthau.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> Another great film.</span></b></i></span><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1">William Schallert: Matthau and I got to be good friends when I did <i>Lonely are the Brave</i> with him. And that was maybe the best part I had in a high quality picture. It didn’t make a lot of money but it was a beautiful picture. It was written by Dalton Trumbo and</span> based on a book by a guy named Edward Abbey. So, anyway…</span></b><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: You became a semi-regular on The George Burns and Gracie Allen program, or you did several episodes, anyway. What do you remember about that experience? </b></i></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Well, I loved working with Gracie Allen. She was terrific, I did most of my stuff with her. And it was just wonderful. I was glad to go back several times. One of the things about that show - the guy on it later produced and directed me in <i>The Patty Duke Show - </i>Rod Amateau, </b></span><br />
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<span class="s1"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: He later created Dukes of Hazard. His son is the head chef at Musso and Frank. </i></span></span></b><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: In any event, I loved working with Gracie. I think I was on the show about three or four times. I always loved working with her and she was just wonderful. The other thing I noticed - you would rehearse one day and then you would shoot it the next. So you’d be finished in two days. </b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>That was the same thing we did on <i>Dobie Gillis</i>. I guess Rod Amateau directed that too. The amazing thing to me was watching George Burns do his monologue. They used to set it up so he was in a corner of the stage. They would set the camera up and he would start doing his monologue - and he would leave spaces after he delivered the punchline. He’d leave a space for them to insert the laugh. He always knew where the laughs were. I mean, I don’t know anybody else who could do that because in those days it was usually live. </b></span><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1">I worked on stuff with Lucille Ball and they were done in sequence with a live audience. I did a number of things at CBS for Red Skelton and Jack Benny. They recorded their laugh track from their actual audience, a live audience. But here, we didn’t have an audience. Just George Burns with his knowledge of what was funny and how long the laugh should last and things like that. It was all in his head.</span> It was amazing to see. It was just him and a single camera and there was no way to cut. They did it in one take and he was always right.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>You were supposed to be in the Orson Welles film Touch of Evil and then you weren’t. What</i><i> happened there?</i></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Well, Albert Zugsmith was the culprit. The first picture in which I had a major part was called <i>The Man From Planet X</i>.</b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: I got billing and all that kind of stuff. The two guys that did that were a writing team - Jack Pollexfen and Aubrey Wisberg. They weren’t famous for anything other than they got pictures made for very little money.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>And they introduced Albert Zugsmith to the business.</b></span><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1">Zugsmith, I think, had been in real estate or something and he’d made money. So he came in and backed a couple of pictures I did with them. He became convinced that I could do anything because I’d played a variety of parts in their pictures. Some of them were villainous, some were comedies. He was convinced I could do anything. He was a producer on <i>Touch of Evil </i>and wanted me in it. The part that was eventually played by Joesph Calleia. The part was of a fifty-year-old Mexican police lieutenant. I’m not like a police lieutenant to begin with and I'm obviously not Mexican. I wasn't anywhere near fifty. </span>Charlton Heston played a Mexican in the film and they darkened him with make-up. <span class="Apple-converted-space">T</span>hey were going to do that with me too. I got introduced to Orson Welles and he said “What? This kid? No. Get him off the set.” That was the end for me in <i>Touch of Evil</i>.</span></b><br />
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Unknownnoreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2398796842887862508.post-2848475054985553652018-09-20T18:46:00.001-07:002018-09-23T15:25:25.547-07:00An Interview with Sam Bobrick - Part One<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You wrote an album that I have owned for years called Mad Twists Rock n' Roll.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: Oh, Mad, yeah. We did two of them. <i>Mad Twists Rock n' Roll</i> and <i>Fink Along with Mad</i>. I made zero dollars on both. I was a young man then. It was the late 1950s and it was fun. We thought it was going to take off, but it was with a <i>very</i> crooked record company. Big Top Records. And the tent came down...</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Most record companies seemed to be crooked back then, but what was it about Big Top Records that was specifically crooked?</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: They didn't pay you. That's crooked enough.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCuiN2JnjpE">The song Nose Job had staying power</a>. It's sort of a novelty classic and it was even <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtFuMVxZdDk">covered by a couple of different bands</a>.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6le600NWk0&t=8s">Yes, and on the second album we had a thing called <i>It's a Gas</i></a>. Howard Stern still plays it. It's just music punctuated with a belch. I left the music business because nobody would pay me. I had one hit for Elvis Presley called <i>The Girl of My Best Friend</i> and that was it. I had an agent, George Shaprio, who became the manager of Jerry Seinfeld. He came to New York, he took me to California, and I started writing half-hours. I never went back into the music business. He hired me for my first job in New York as an office boy for the scarecrow - Ray Bolger. He had a show on NBC called <i>Washington Square</i>.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">My first job in the business was in the mail room of ABC. There was a guy who had the job before me at the Ray Bolger show. After a few weeks he felt he wasn't going anywhere - because you <i>don't</i> go anywhere. I hated the mail room so much. I applied for this job and George Shapiro hired me. I wrote a lot on spec, sketches and things like that. He always liked my writing and at that time most of the television was moving to the Coast. I don't know why, but I didn't like New York. It was just okay. George brought me out to Los Angeles in 1962. I left my apartment and everything in New York. I wasn't going back. I just loved it here! But I did have to go back and live in New York for a year because I was doing the <i>Kraft Music Hall</i>.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Where else did you submit material prior to the Ray Bolger show?</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: There were some radio programs. The Robert Q. Lewis radio show, which was the last network show on the air. After my job as an office boy on Ray Bolger, I got another job as an office boy on <i>Make Me Laugh</i>. It lasted thirteen weeks. Robert Q. Lewis was the host. They got a bunch of comics, put a person in a chair and tried to make them laugh. You don't know how hard that is because the comics weren't funny. It was a disastrous show. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">They were paying me a hundred dollars a week to write jokes for the comics, but they would never use them. These were old time comics who never trusted new material. They only trusted the old material, which they had <i>stolen</i>. When the show closed, I was very funny at the closing night party and Robert Q. Lewis hired me for his radio show. That kind of started me in the New York area writing. I wrote <i>Captain Kangaroo</i>. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">I wrote a bunch of game shows. One was called<i> Music Bingo.</i> I would write the interviews and you would work wherever you could. I started writing, but there was no business left in New York at the time. George said, "You've got to come out here to California and you'll work."</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Robert Q. Lewis obviously liked you a lot, but a lot of people behind the scenes did not like Robert Q. Lewis.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: Well, he wasn't likable! He was convinced that he was destined to replace Jack Paar. It never happened and suddenly his fortunes faded. The show went off the air and I think he moved out here. I saw him once, but he didn't remember who I was.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: By the late sixties he was mostly doing cigarette commercials.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: And on <i>Make Me Laugh</i>, the sponsor was L&M Cigarettes. There was a comic by the name of Lenny Kent on the show and there was a brand at the time called Kent Cigarettes which was a competitor. We got a note, one of those stupid notes that I wish I had kept. It said, "When you introduce Lenny Kent - say the word Kent very fast."</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: I've seen one episode of the Robert Q. Lewis Make Me Laugh where Ernie Kovacs does a walk-on to promote some show.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: I don't remember. Those days were fun... maybe. When you're struggling, it's never really fun until you look back at it. I had an apartment in Brooklyn Heights, forty dollars a month and my unemployment check was forty dollars a week. So I lived pretty good struggling. You can't do that anymore. I look back on New York more fondly than I thought I would.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Many of your first credits in Los Angeles were with Bill Idelson.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: Those are the half-hours that I did. When I came out here they teamed me up with Bill Idelson. He had an assignment and needed a partner for <i>The Andy Griffith Show</i>. Bill Idelson was also an actor and he worked on <i>The Dick Van Dyke Show</i>. He asked Carl Reiner who he would recommend. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Well, George Shapiro is Carl Reiner's nephew. You know, it's all luck. There were two writers working for Carl named Sam Denoff and Bill Persky. I was Sam Denoff's roommate when I came out here. They recommended me. Bill Idelson and I did our first assignment and Aaron Reuben liked it. Aaron Reuben was the producer of <i>The Andy Griffith Show</i>. The first episode that we wrote won a Writers Guild award. That helped us even more. So we were a team. But my heart really wasn't into writing half-hours, although I <i>loved</i> The Andy Griffith Show. After Don Knotts left the show, it wasn't so good. It wasn't so much fun. I wanted to get away from it so George got me a job on the Smothers Brothers show.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: The Andy Griffith Show from what I hear was an abnormally blissful set.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: Yes. You couldn't find a better show to be on. There were several shows being made at the time, all on the same lot, all produced by Sheldon Leonard and Danny Thomas. There was a great atmosphere because they appreciated writers and in this town, very few people do.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Desilu was a factory.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: Yeah, we shot at the Desilu studio but the production company was Leonard-Thomas or Thomas-Leonard. They started with <i>The Danny Thomas Show</i> and then <i>The Dick Van Dyke Show</i>, and<i> I Spy</i> and <i>The Andy Griffith Show</i>. It was a nice atmosphere. Most of Hollywood did not treat writers great. Writers are just unimportant. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Ron Clark was my next writing partner. We wrote four Broadway plays and they all got killed. East of the Mississippi we were playwrights. West of the Mississippi we were gag writers. Writers became more important around the late eighties when they became show runners and started to get paid a lot of money. Making producers out of writers really started with Sheldon Leonard and Danny Thomas. They really appreciated writers. I think it was because Sheldon Leonard came from the Broadway stage where they <i>do </i>respect writers. Desilu was a great atmosphere and everybody knew everybody else. We worked on several other shows. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Did you write on Joey Bishop's sitcom? That was done at Desilu around the same time.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: No, thank God I didn't write on that one. I wrote some Gomer Pyles and whenever Persky and Denoff had a show I would write on those. They didn't last. One was called <i>Good Morning, World</i>. It was a small business. Now it's a huge business with network and cable and the web. It's hard to know everybody, but when I came out here in the early sixties it was not that big of a business.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: January 1965 - you wrote a special called Allan Sherman's Funnyland.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: Oh God, was that a nightmare. Yeah. God, how do you know <i>this</i>? I do <i>not</i> list that on my bio! It was an awful show. Allan was in and out of the hospital and on all kinds of drugs. He was hot after his comedy record. Ronnie Graham and I teamed up to write it. Allan was in the old Cedars-Lebanon Hospital near Los Feliz and he had a suite up there. We wrote this whole show up in his hospital room. But he had doctors giving him pills up the ass. Uppers in the morning and downers at night and he was a total mess. He was all over the place. He was a wreck and thank God we got it over with, but it wasn't fun. </span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: The writers I have listed for that Allan Sherman special are you, Bill Idelson, David Vern and Roger Price.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: Oh, yes, you're right. I thought it was Ronnie Graham, but it was actually Roger Price. That's right. I get them mixed up. Roger Price was the guy who did Droodles. Nice guy, very nice guy.</span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: The guest stars on that special were Angie Dickinson, Lorne Greene, The Ray Charles Singers and Jack Gilford.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: Jack Gilford used to do a lot half-hours too and he was a very nice guy.</span></b><br />
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b></i>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: The special was directed by television veteran Greg Garrison.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: Greg Garrison, yes. I knew Greg. He was a nice guy. He was the director of that Ray Bolger show I worked on. He was a ladies man. Great looking. He had the Dean Martin show too. Our paths crossed a little bit and I always found him nice although I never knew him in depth<i>.</i></span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesterff: How about the experience of writing a couple episodes of the Flintstones?</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: Oh, that was fun. Joe Barbera was a great guy. It was the old Jackie Gleason show, basically. Joe called me up one time when I was writing on my own. It was very early in my career. He said, "Let's have lunch." I thought, "Great! My first Hollywood lunch!" When it was time for lunch he called in his secretary and gave her some change. He said, "Get sandwiches." There was a machine that dispensed sandwiches! So disappointing! But he was a nice guy and I wrote a few of them, but I preferred live-action.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Same process writing for a cartoon sitcom...</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: Yeah, actually it is the same process. As a writer you might think a little differently when it's animated. In the old days they would do eighty or ninety percent of what you wrote. That's just the way it was. Now, working on these half hour shows - if ten percent of your script remains, you're very lucky. They tear them apart. Sometimes they make them better. Sometimes they make them worse.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: You wrote for the Sandy Baron sitcom Hey, Landlord...</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: That was a Sheldon Leonard show. Garry Marshall was a producer on it and he was fun. He has a theater out here and I wrote a couple plays he put on. Just four years ago one of them won the Edgar Award. Garry has managed to stay on top forever and he loves the business. </span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: He's very funny guy. He has the energy of a stand-up comedian.</span></b></i><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: There's an old comic named Phil Foster and Garry talks a lot like him. If you were in a room and they were talking you wouldn't know who was who.</span></b><br />
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b></i>
<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: I still can't believe he isn't Jewish. He has that same cadence and that rhythm.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: I know! He broke a lot of hearts by not being Jewish! He's from Brooklyn. I didn't know very much about Sandy Baron, but I know it didn't end well for him. Will Hutchins was on <i>Hey Landlord,</i> but I don't remember what I wrote. I don't even remember the Andy Griffiths I wrote.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: You wrote for Get Smart..</i>.</span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: I wrote a couple, but they would change it so much. I remember hating their rewrites so much. I remember one of my <i>Get Smart</i> scripts won the Writers Guild award - but it was totally different from the actual show they shot! I didn't know Don Adams because most of the time you wouldn't go on the set if you were a writer. </span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: How did you get hired for The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour? Everyone talks about its controversial third season, but you were there from the very beginning for season one.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: Actually, Ron Clark and I got hired for the second season and we didn't stay for the third. George Shapiro handled the show for the Morris office. Saul Illson and Ernie Chambers were the producers. The third season was when Tommy Smothers took over the show and Illson and Chambers left. Tommy was a terrific talent, but I don't think he was a great producer. We didn't trust him. When the job for the <i>Kraft Music Hall</i> came along for us in New York we took that instead. </span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Two writers on your season of The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour were Hal Goodman and Al Gordon.</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: My favorite comic in the whole world was Jack Benny. Hal and Al were one of his writing teams. They were just great. Al Gordon was the best joke man I ever met. He would come up with it in a second and Hal was the constructionist. He saw how to make a sketch work. They were a very unusual team. Two totally different guys. Al was very, very nervous. I used to wonder if he was <i>on</i> something. Hal was the calmest man in the word. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">They were great guys and terrific writers. I really, really respected them and they wrote great stuff for the Smothers Brothers. You know when Pat Paulsen would have his monologues? They wrote Pat Paulsen's monologues. I only ever wrote one of them. I stayed friends with Pat Paulsen. I directed him in a couple plays out in Michigan. We had a good time on <i>The Smothers Comedy Hour</i>. It was just fun!</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: How about Gene Farmer?</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: You know, they first teamed me up with Gene Farmer. I worked one day with him and I said, "It's oil and water." I could not work with him. He had a different style and I was ready to quit the show after the first day. I saw that we weren't a good team. Then they teamed me up with Ron Clark and from the very first hour we were together, it just clicked. Sometimes people have good chemistry and sometimes they don't, just like marriage. Your sense of comedy should really be just like that of your partner. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Neither of us had much of an ego. If he didn't like my joke I'd come up with another and we could write quickly together. We're still friends. I see Ron about once a week and we have a lot of laughs. It was fun to write with Ron. We started with a summer replacement and I think Eddy Arnold was the host. There was nothing to write because he sang most of the time so we had all this spare time and we said, "Well, let's write a play." We wrote our first play and it was called <i>Norman, Is That You? </i>It bombed in New York.</span></b><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: Before we get into that... Allan Blye joined the writing staff of the Smothers Brothers while you were still there...</span></b></i><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Sam Bobrick: Yeah, he wrote mostly their musical routines. Later on Bob Einstein and Allan Blye produced a show in Canada called <i>Bizarre </i>with John Byner. It was one of the first cable shows. </span></b><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Steve Martin used to hang around the show before he was hired as a writer and I think we maybe even used him as a guest. We used a lot of comics as guests. I remember we used a <a href="https://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2016/08/an-interview-with-gary-mule-deer.html">guy by the name of Gary Mule Deer</a> around that time. Mason Williams was another writer on <i>The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour</i>, but I didn't get to know him too well. But I do remember when he called me into the room to hear a song he'd just composed called <i>Classical Gas</i>. He taught himself the guitar. He wrote a book that was just a big fold-out of a bus. That was the whole book. He wrote another song called <i>Saturday Night at the World</i>, which I thought was pretty good. He was a wonderful musician. The fact that he taught himself was amazing. Mason Williams was a real wild thinker. It could been from drugs, I don't know. It was that period in history when psychedelic drugs and stuff like that became common - especially around the Smothers Brothers show. </span></b><br />
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<br />Unknownnoreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2398796842887862508.post-61904044675613094432018-05-10T16:22:00.000-07:002018-05-16T18:17:03.192-07:00An Interview with William Schallert - Part One <div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: I told a friend that I was going to be talking to you today and he mentioned he has a collection of your mother’s radio program -</b></i></span><i style="font-family: times, "times new roman", serif;"><b><span style="font-size: large;"> The Elza Schallert Show - episodes from the 1930s in which she interviewed Hollywood stars like Tallulah Bankhead and the Dead End Kids...</span></b></i></div>
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<span class="s1"><i><span class="Apple-converted-space" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b> </b></span></i></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Oh my God! Well, I would love... if there’s some way for me to get them... </b></span></div>
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<b style="font-family: times, "times new roman", serif;"><span style="font-size: large;"><span class="s1">One of my brothers used to have them on large sixteen or twenty inch discs, you know, aluminum discs. T</span>hey were transcribed by the people at one of those radio history things.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Anyway, whatever shape they’re in - that would be great.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: Yeah, my friend has a CD and could send you...</b></i></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><span class="s1">William Schallert: Oh my God, how simple! That would be great. </span>Oh, thank you so much. My God, I’d really owe you for that...</b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: Yeah, no problem.</b></i></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1">William Schallert: I’d sort of given up on those.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> S</span></span>he was on the air from 1937 through 1939, somewhere around that time.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>And she interviewed everybody including a program she did with Thornton Wilder. The subject was “What is Art?”<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b></div>
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<b style="font-family: times, "times new roman", serif;"><span style="font-size: large;">She had a half hour radio show about that. Most of them are just fifteen minutes. She would review a picture and interview everybody. The Dead End Kids. Top of the line people.</span></b></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: I read that when you were a child you attended Shirley Temple's birthday party.</b></i></span><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1">William Schallert: My father was the drama editor of the Los Angeles Times</span> for forty years. The Schallert name was an “open sesame” when I was first getting started.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>For a couple of years I did go to Shirley Temple’s birthday parties. I was seated <i>well away</i> from Shirley Temple.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>It was at Twentieth Century Fox and, you know, it was publicity.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: I wanted to ask you a little bit about the Circle Theater. One of my favorite people in the world is <a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2012/04/interview-with-marvin-kaplan-part-one.html">character actor Marvin Kaplan</a>.</b></i></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Oh, yes.</b></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><span class="s1"><i>Kliph Nesteroff: You both came out of the Circle Theater on El Centro Avenue, an ancient building that's still there.</i></span><i> In Hollywood every old building lays some specious claim to Charlie Chaplin, but his family did own the Circle Theater, right? It's the oldest theater in Hollywood - and still standing today.</i></b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Charlie Chaplin took an interest in the theater because his brother Sydney was in it. This was around 1947. Charlie Jr. was in it too, but he didn’t stay very long. Jerry Epstein was the guy who was sort of running the place. Jerry Epstein, Sydney Chaplin and myself were owners of the theater. I put some money up.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1"><b>Chaplin used to come to see the plays. The first play we did was <i>Ethan Frome</i>.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Well, before that we had been </b></span><b>up the street and had </b><b>done <i>The Adding Machine</i>.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>But where we ended up is still there. It was called The Circle Theater and the Players Ring and they renamed it El Centro Theater at some point. </b></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: x-small;">The Circle Theater as it looks today on El Centro Avenue</span></div>
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<b style="font-family: times, "times new roman", serif;"><span style="font-size: large;">Mabel Albertson was the musical director for the Andrew Sisters and Jerry Epstein had been their road manager. They were in cahoots.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>She had cast me in the first play and people in the group said, “Oh, that’s a piece of <i>fluff.</i>” And it was.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> S</span>o they decided not to do it.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>And then they did <i>Ethan Frome</i> instead, which is about as far from fluff as you can get.</span></b><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>A grim, grim play. I played Ethan because of Mabel. She liked my work. The next play we did was <i>The Time of Your Life. </i>Chaplin saw us in <i>The Time of Your Life </i>and he liked it. He called William Saroyan and said, “Why don’t you give these kids the next play of yours to do? They've doing a terrific job with this one.” </b></span><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Saroyan didn’t really believe in telephones. When he talked on the phone he <i>TALKED LIKE THIS ALL THE TIME</i>. </span></b></div>
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<b style="font-family: times, "times new roman", serif;"><span style="font-size: large;">In any event, Chaplin started coming down to the theater. He was seeing the plays before they opened. He'd come when we were in the last week of rehearsal. He drove this little plain black Ford over from Tower Drive in Beverly Hills.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> H</span>e would show up and he would watch us do the first act of the play and he would say, “Ah! No! Could we just stop here? And go back to the very beginning and run through it one more time?”<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>He wasn't the director, but he would take over. And he would proceed to take it apart and work on it, and he became the director kind of after the fact. He added touches to all the plays we did for about two years. And then we had decided to do a production of<i> Rain</i>.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>June Havoc had been coming to the theater. Her husband was a radio producer named Bill Spier. He did <i>Sam Spade </i>and <i>Suspense.</i></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-size: x-small;"> The Circle Theater as it looks today on El Centro Avenue</span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1"><b>They came to the theater. It was a theater in the round and it was very small. </b></span><b>The acting area was only about 8x10 and we could seat, if we crowded them, we could maybe fit 140 people. Most of the time it was around 110.<span class="Apple-converted-space"><br /></span></b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>When we did <i>The Time of Your Life</i> we made up the whole theater as if it were a saloon. People would walk in and there would be sawdust on the floor and tables with checkered table cloths. The audience sat around on these bar seats we spread around the theater. </b></span><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Chaplin would come at night and he’d do a good deal of reworking. It’d be getting late and his wife Oona would be saying “Charlie, these kids have got to get up early and they’re going to have to do the show again tomorrow night. We have to get going.” It’d almost be dawn. They’d leave finally and he'd go, “Now remember everything I said!” We did our best but he’d come back the next night and say, “Oh no! Oh no, this is all wrong.</span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">”</span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"> And then he’d redo it again (</span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">laughs<i>)</i></span></b><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>So how frustrating was that for the actors? I mean, it’s the great Charlie Chaplin, but at the same time that’s kind of…</i></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Well… you know, we weren’t going to complain. I mean, he was Chaplin, after all.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Sure.</i></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: He would give us some very good stuff that we could use. So he would show us and we would imitate, which is not the best way to do it, but then sometimes he would talk to people and give them interesting suggestions. </b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff: The Circle Theater is completely ignored in Hollywood history, by tourists, by locals, by everybody. Not too many people even know what that brick structure is today, but it was like a character actor factory. All these famous character actors got their start here. You. Strother Martin. Marvin Kaplan. The great Kathleen Freeman who appears in all the Jerry Lewis movies...</i></b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Yes, Kathleen Freeman and Strother Martin both started at the theater. Kathleen described what Chaplin had told her about <i>Rain</i>. She played a Native woman who was married to the guy who owned the hotel. Chaplin gave her a different thing to do on each of her entrances. He said, “Now on this one, you know, you want to impress the people with how efficient you are. On this next one here, you want to see if there's something you could do that would make them give you more money...” And just things like that. It wasn’t all just imitating, but he gave motivations. It was the same idea as the Stanislavski method.</b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> Next you did a William Saroyan play called Sam’s Ego House.</i></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Yes.</b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>It was 1947 and you were playing a seventy-five year old man in the play. Sort of interesting in the wake of the famous Get Smart character you did years later.</i></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert:<i> </i>Well, I loved playing the old guys! I was the character man of the company. When Chaplin decided he was going to direct <i>Rain</i> I played Reverend Davidson. I was twenty-five. It was ridiculous.</b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> Yeah</span>.</i></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: <i>Sam Ego's House </i>is not a very good play. I don’t think it has ever been done again. But Saroyan had a very special quality in his writing and we loved doing it.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>And that was a great part for me. Toward the end of it I had a long monologue.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> W</span>hile I was delivering it, I would start to leave and stop, and then finish the monologue, and then after that I would actually leave. And on my exit I would always get a terrific hand. So every night I got this tremendous hand. Except <i>once</i>. And that was the night Saroyan was there.</b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Oh no…</i></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: What happened was Saroyan<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>thought I was finished and he didn’t think they were going to applaud so he started a hand himself, but it was way too early.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff: (laughs)</i></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: So it killed my big exit.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff: He wrote the monologue yet didn’t realize it wasn't finished.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></i></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: (laughs) No, he didn’t remember. It didn’t matter. He said, “I wanted to make sure that you got a hand because it was wonderful!” So it was the best of intentions, but it was kind of a funny thing. Anyway, Chaplin always liked what I did... At least, he liked <i>some</i> of what I did. He’d seen <i>Sam Ego's House</i> and the next play we did was <i>Goldsworthy</i>, which was very dull. I was playing a butler, a very small part. I started to do something and Chaplin said, “Oh, you don’t want to borrow from that wonderful thing you did in <i>Sam Ego's House</i>. </b><b>No, we want to do something different.” And so, from that, I guessed that he must have liked what I did in <i>Sam Ego's House</i>.</b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff: Sydney Chaplin was dating Marylin Monroe at the time.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></i></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: I never saw her. I didn’t know that Sydney was dating her. She had been raised right across the street from the theater in an orphanage on El Centro Avenue. That’s where she had sort of grown up.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>It might still be there. I haven’t been in the neighborhood for a while. I’m not sure.</b></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff: I still can't get over the company at The Circle Theater. All the famous character actors - Marvin Kaplan, Strother Martin. Kathleen Freeman, William Schallert... these are </i></b></span><b><i><span class="Apple-converted-space">the greatest character actors in film and television history.</span></i></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Yeah, whenever I talk about that theater I always mention them. They were all a significant part of it and it <i>is </i>where they started in the business.</b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: Sure.</b></i></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: And, yeah, Strother and I were good friends. He was a wonderful diver. Back in Michigan he'd been in the finals of the diving championship, the NCAA championships. He was fourth out of the country and if there’d been an Olympics that year... that was in 1940... if there’d been an Olympics that year he would have gone.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff: There was somebody named Danny Arnold in the Circle Theater.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></i></b></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1"><b>William Schallert: In <i>Time of Your Life </i>he played Wesley. I don’t know <i>why </i>I remember that. In the scene he's on the phone desperately talking to a girl and when he gets off I say, “How’d you do?” He says, “Uh… not very well. She said she wanted to be of help, but I don’t know what kind of help she could be of.” (laughs) That’s a nice line of Saroyan’s. Anyway, he was a very good actor. He was with us when we first started with the Elmer Rice play <i>The Adding Machine</i>.<i> </i>Joe Mantell was part of our group. He had been with the Actor’s Lab out here. He was in <i>Marty</i>. He was the guy who was always hanging out with Ernest Borgnine saying, “Well, what are you going to do, Marty?” </b></span><b>Mantell was a very good character actor. He started with the Actor’s Lab, but he worked with us.</b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff: What about this play you guys did called Kitty Dune? It sounds sort of like a predecessor to the film Sunset Boulevard. It’s about a washed up Hollywood star. You played the producer.</i></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Yeah, it was written by a guy named Aben Kandel - and that’s exactly what it was. It was about a washed up movie star. I played the head of the studio (laughs). I was usually playing stuff like that. And I’m trying to remember the actor's name.</b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff: Ellanora Reeves.</i></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Yeah, that’s right. Ellanora Reeves. She was very good.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>And once in a while we would have outside people - people who were stars elsewhere - who would come to us and want to work with us. She was one. June Havoc was another. She decided she wanted to do <i>Rain </i>out here because she had done a musical version of it in New York and she wanted to establish her acting chops out here in Hollywood. </b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1"><b>So as a result a lot of us got to work on some of the last great radio shows in the late forties. Her husband was Bill Spier who used to produce radio shows, so you'll hear myself and Marvin Kaplan and some of the others on those old radio shows. We </b></span><b>also worked with Marie Wilson. I don’t know if you know who she was.</b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff: Sure, Marie Wilson starred in the first movie with Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis. </i></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Yeah!</b></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff: </i></b></span><b><i>The Circle Theater production with Marie Wilson was School for Scandal.</i></b><b><i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>I've heard that it was kind of controversial because she was more of a voluptuous night club star than an actress. She was sort of a proto-Jayne Mansfield.</i></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Exactly. She had done a show called Ken Murray's Blackouts.</b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Right, right. It ran for years and years at 1735 Vine Street. Sort of an elaborate burlesque comedy revue. 1735 was the same theater where they later did the Hollywood Palace and the Jerry Lewis talk show and a million other things.</b></i></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Ken Murray's Blackouts was very successful. Marie Wilson played the dumb blonde in <i>School for Scandal</i> - Lady Teasle. She was married to Sir Peter Teasle and<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>I played Sir Peter Teasle. She was actually wonderful in it. </b></span><br />
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<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">She was wonderful to work with. She was delightful, very funny, voluptuous, and knew what it was people wanted to see from her, which was perfect. She was very good in this thing. Chaplin had a woman named Constance Collier, who had been a well known British stage actress back in the time of Sir Herbert Beerbohm Tree. Around the turn of the century. Chaplin sort of took care of people like that. She had a stipend from him, fifty dollars a week, which helped her stay alive and in the business. And then she made money as Katharine Hepburn’s coach. It was through Constance Collier and Katharine Hepburn that <a href="http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2012/04/interview-with-marvin-kaplan-part-one.html">Marvin Kaplan came to the Circle Theater</a>.</span></b><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Right, he’s <a href="https://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2012/04/interview-with-marvin-kaplan-part-one.html">told me that story</a>. Was Kitty Dune something that Billy Wilder would have been inspired by? Sunset Boulevard was made just two years later.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></i></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: You know, I have no idea. It never occurred to me, but it’s possible. Ellanora Reeves was a good actress. She was married to the original Superman.</b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff: George Reeves.</i></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Yes. She was a very good actress and it was an interesting story. I don’t remember much of the details about it. I guess it’s possible. It’s an interesting speculation. I’ve never heard it before.</b></span><br />
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<i><b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;">Kliph Nesteroff: So how did you parlay into film acting? Right around the same time you started getting your first bit parts in films. You were in a lot of B movies, but also prestige pictures like The Reckless Moment with James Mason. A Max Ophuls film.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b></i></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Yes, I remember Max. We were doing a play of Shaw’s at that time - <i>Major Barbara</i>. Max Ophuls had seen the play and he decided he wanted to use me in this movie called <i>The Reckless Moment</i>. I don’t know that it was even a scripted part, but I played a police lieutenant. He was a marvelous director. He got me to improvise something. When I saw it on the screen I thought, “Wow, I didn’t know I could act that well!” He had a marvelous way of drawing things out of you. Max Ophuls wasn't the only one who saw that play. Norman Lear told me that it was the very first thing he saw when he came to Hollywood. He drove into town, parked on El Centro Avenue, left his family in the car and walked into our production of <i>Major Barbara.</i></b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: Wow.</b></i></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Yeah, so…</b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: You also directed a bit at the Circle Theatre. I have you down as the director for What Every Woman Knows.</b></i></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><span class="s1">William Schallert: Yeah, wonderful play by James Barrie. Well, I did my best trying to put it together as a director, but directing is not something I liked. I tried it a number of times later on and my wife said, “You know, you’re very unhappy when you’re directing.” I said, “I know. I’m not going to do it anymore.</span>” I stopped. I was only interested in being the actor on stage and I wanted to be the center of attention that way. </b></span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>They have to be able to enjoy helping other people bring out what’s in the play. Joe Sargent was a friend of ours and he went on and pushed it. He tried to get me to do more, we directed a couple of things together, one act plays, that kind of thing. But I told him, I said, “Joe, you know I don’t really want to direct.” So, I think he was very disappointed in me.<i> </i></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: I found a trade ad from 1957 advertising the fact that you were directing two plays at the same time. The Rainmaker at Tuscan Playbox in Tuscan, California and Champagne Complex at the Laguna Summer Playhouse. </b></i></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Yeah, I directed both of those. Joe Flynn was in the one at Laguna. And later on I did that play at a small theatre started by some of the people who had been with us who broke away. They started the Player’s Ring and they had three theaters at one point. And I did <i>Champagne Complex </i>with them in 1960. As a result of that I got the one pilot I did for a series that I was going to star in. It was called <i>Philbert</i>.</b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff: Right. It was part animation - part live-action.</i></b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: And we thought we had a sale. I got a call from Friz Freleng. He was the cartoonist on that. He was also physically the model for Mister Magoo. He was famous among cartoonists as the guy they based Mister Magoo on, the way he looked.</b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff: I didn't know that.</i></b></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1"><b>William Schallert: Friz told me, “We got an order to develop eight scripts. So I think we’re good.</b></span><b>”</b><b> And this was after we made the pilot. And I remember calling my wife and saying, “Honey, I'm going to be a star!”<i> </i>It turned out they couldn’t… Friz told me that they told him it cost too much to make, what with putting an animated character in. In those days they used to do a black and white comedy, a half hour comedy, for fifty thousand dollars.</b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff: Right, right.</i></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: But in that show it would have cost... because there was so much animation... it was going to cost seventy-five thousand an episode. Friz Freleng told me, “They said you weren’t a big enough name for them to justify spending that much.” So… easy come, easy go.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff: We'll get into your television career later on. I want to finish up with your early career first. You directed a play by William Saroyan called The Cave Dwellers. It was produced by Monte Hellman before he became a director. What do you remember about that? What do you remember about Monte Hellman? He was one of the best filmmakers of the 1970s.</i></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Monte was a very generous guy, really nice guy. He was running a theater on Melrose, I think. Oddly enough, it was another Circle Theater, but it was unrelated to ours. Monte Hellman made a production of <i>Waiting for Godot </i>there with Jack Albertson and his comedy partner Joey Faye. And it was quite wonderful. It really was. Jack was a terrific actor and that was a marvelous production of it.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>And so Monte did quality work on the stage, but I don’t remember how I met him.</b></span><br />
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<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgv7op_dhfZa3e8rpEK52XHkZkw4pyjmOMsHK6sf7mx8CQo3nB8vXFkcpqwf6fifNv_sn3L617FiG72tPU1jbFbtCxzPv-mKh5Y9VcQ6vXlcBLpCYPNJPTIm-D75jOLwVXNY3oTOb2lXIg/s1600/Screen+Shot+2018-05-10+at+3.04.43+PM.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="724" data-original-width="1600" height="180" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgv7op_dhfZa3e8rpEK52XHkZkw4pyjmOMsHK6sf7mx8CQo3nB8vXFkcpqwf6fifNv_sn3L617FiG72tPU1jbFbtCxzPv-mKh5Y9VcQ6vXlcBLpCYPNJPTIm-D75jOLwVXNY3oTOb2lXIg/s400/Screen+Shot+2018-05-10+at+3.04.43+PM.png" width="400" /></a></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>I may have approached him about doing <i>The Cave Dwellers </i>or… I don’t remember how we came together. But in any event, he said, “Yeah, you should direct it, that would be great.” And he wanted me to use his wife and I said, “No, I can’t do that. I don’t think she’s right for it.</b><b>”</b><b> So then I used <i>my</i> wife in it (<i>laughs</i>). <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>But I must say, he was very generous about it and at first he said, “Well you were right, she was wonderful in it.” But that was the show that kept me from ever directing anything again. I had miscast a key role in it. The guy was physically right for it, the right type, but he couldn’t act his way out of a paper sack.</b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff: Right.</i></b></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1"><b>William Schallert: So that was when I realized casting is the main thing that a director does. And if he doesn’t do it right then the show will never be good. </b></span><b>And so that’s when I learned that lesson. It was after that I decided I wasn’t going to direct anymore.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff: June 1951 - Tartuffe the Impostor starring Sam Jaffe at the Ivar Theatre. You not only acted in it, but you also did the music.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></i></b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Yeah. Well, I’d studied composing with Arnold Schoenberg when I was at UCLA. That is, he had let me join his graduate seminar. He used to hear me playing the piano and he thought I had a particular musical ear. I was playing stuff that was symphonic, but I’d managed to find a way to play it on a piano too. Leonard Stein told me that that was the reason Schoenberg had invited me to be in his graduate seminar. But I’d found out in the graduate seminar that I couldn’t do it fast enough to make a living. That was the key. The other people in the class were much more adept. I couldn’t work away from the piano. And I couldn’t hear it in my head in the way it needed to be. But before that I did some musical tracks for plays I was in.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>At the Ivar - I think that was <i>The Mad Woman of Chaillot.</i> Was it?</b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b><i>Kliph Nesteroff: I don’t have that one down. I don’t know.</i></b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Well, they had some music for it, written by somebody. And I thought it was good but I played it on the piano for a recording and they used it in the show. And you know, every way you could make a buck. I was surviving in those days.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><br />
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: At the start of your career you were cast in the great film The Red Badge of Courage. Working with John Huston...</b></i></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: Wonderful.</b></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><i><b>Kliph Nesteroff: Even though a lot of these were small parts - you were working with legends.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></i></span></div>
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<span class="s1" style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><b>William Schallert: No question. Well, I can tell you a story about that. Would you like me to tell you about John Huston?</b></span></div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com9tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2398796842887862508.post-58835534569125297252018-04-09T00:48:00.001-07:002018-04-09T00:48:36.978-07:00The Tomorrow Show with Tom Snyder with guests Stymie, Buckwheat, Darla and Spanky (1974)<iframe allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/oXdEfLhNRsg" width="425"></iframe>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2398796842887862508.post-72500600945688169852018-03-26T20:02:00.000-07:002018-03-26T20:04:42.846-07:00The Tonight Show with guest Dr. Frank Field (1969)<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgcAXUFjFQO5W0qymSl_Qna7kEW730htykMY8LEka2a53xWqm9MAxEAXkRfxbIjD0h2nFGAfoagoHtpWKG3Yn0WaUUsO2G2_C4-DdGmXhvIBl879LoQ1dGgleE1BRmRiclqOFWTnC2s6QI/s1600/Screen+Shot+2018-03-26+at+7.52.02+PM.png" imageanchor="1"><img border="0" data-original-height="1078" data-original-width="1126" height="382" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgcAXUFjFQO5W0qymSl_Qna7kEW730htykMY8LEka2a53xWqm9MAxEAXkRfxbIjD0h2nFGAfoagoHtpWKG3Yn0WaUUsO2G2_C4-DdGmXhvIBl879LoQ1dGgleE1BRmRiclqOFWTnC2s6QI/s400/Screen+Shot+2018-03-26+at+7.52.02+PM.png" width="400" /></a><br />
<b><span style="font-family: "times" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: large;"><br />Very rare Tonight Show footage from the late 1960s.</span></b><br />
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<iframe allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/kZ4aibQoigs" width="425"></iframe>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2398796842887862508.post-70081798062664378952018-02-14T14:56:00.002-08:002018-02-14T14:57:11.120-08:00The Tonight Show with or without Jack Paar (Feburary 12, 1960)<iframe width="425" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/V3dVEzLIQYQ" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2398796842887862508.post-72239808887955417222017-12-18T00:00:00.000-08:002017-12-18T00:00:03.290-08:00Roll Out - Christmas Episode (1974)<iframe allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" gesture="media" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/gC9drE6nN0Y" width="430"></iframe>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2398796842887862508.post-59362409598687615232017-10-10T05:29:00.002-07:002017-10-10T05:29:56.796-07:00ABC Comedy News starring Fannie Flagg, Andrew Duncan, Kenneth Mars, Mort Sahl, Bob & Ray, Dick Gregory, Peter Schickele, and Joan Rivers (1973)<iframe width="425" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/p8bm_h5xx3I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2398796842887862508.post-66053587575155965062017-07-24T11:55:00.002-07:002017-07-24T11:55:23.806-07:00This is CNN <div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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